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Post by Don Barone on Jul 28, 2008 9:50:16 GMT -5
Hi all .. In case you have not been following the discussion over at Ma'at here are Clive Ross's entries into the art and Giza and hidden code sweepstakes ... First one from me: then several from Clive Ross: Caption:
Don:
The painting is a basic copy of the “Vitruvious Man” by DaVinci. This one is more explicit and easier to follow. In those “Renaissance days” it was forbidden to discuss planets orbiting the Sun, but those who followed the old teachings of the Pythagoreans were tricky fellows...they hid their knowledge in their art work...exactly the same method as used by the ancient Egyptians. You appear to see some of the basic math functions, but there is much more.
To eliminate confusion, I removed your lines and added what I saw instantly...the oddity of the victim’s hand shapes tells you that circular ratios are implied within the drawing. Follow the hands...!
Venus is always white...the lady to the left. Mars is always red...there are two.
20xpi = 62.8...see the degrees measures. 93.4 is used elsewhere...not to be discussed at this point. Total of the two is 156.2 When Venus is 156.2 degrees behind Mars (62.8+93.4) then it must travel 232 degrees to align with Mars. The gent on the right is pointing to the alignment location ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Caption: ... Look carefully at the geometry and the items that tie everything together. The "ratio" of the outer to inner circle is very important...the victims hands and the single fingertip pointing toward center....one finger representing unity...(1.000).
Earth and Mars align every 780 Earth days, known as their synodic period.
This realignment measure would be one of the first things recorded over time if the ancients were ever interested in planet motion.
Knowing this interval of time does not confirm these people understanding the heliocentric (Sun center) system...it only stipulates the time between successive alignments of the two planets with the Sun.
Now...if you take this 780 days and convert to Earth years it would equal 2.1353 years...the ratio of the two circles...!
Believe me, it is not coincidental because the painting includes alignments for the other visible planets. ...an ingenious artist...who was it ? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the info re Matthias Grunewald (like his first name…plays on the fists book and the Greek root "math").
Same as Da Vinci and crew…if you can’t beat them then join them !
The piece you selected is awesome and it has the extra fold-out panels to go with it…ingenious.
Combined, we now have the following:
First...note the radius measures of the circles...these are ratios compared to the center circle of 1.000; it confirms intent of numbers used within the drawing.
The bottom right explains that Earth orbits 173 degrees (from yellow line to green line) in 176 days.
I informed you that the white cloaked female represents Venus...the second location of this female is on the lower panel 282 degrees from the first...the orbital distance Venus travels in 176 Earth days.
The second aspect of the 173 is the realignment of Mars and Venus...every 174+ degrees of Mar’s orbit.
Viewing the third angle of 191 (green) should be familiar to you...it is the identical angle set out by the Giza three...Mars orbits 191 degrees in one Earth year.
And this fellow was rewarded by the church for his devoted work...if only they had known...!!!
Best. Clive --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I doubt if these artists were aware of the asteroid belt and their orbital location. Always look for the obvious...what is the fellow on the right pointing to? Whatever it is, it is the focal point of attention. Use it as the center and you end up with the following:
I added the 23.43 "tilt" of Earth as I'm sure you have observed in the past. Notice the line running from the center figure through the back shoulders blades of the right figure.
The alignment of the three heads directs you to the fingertip, as did the previous painting.
The head of the fourth figure at the lower right sets out two angles...43+ and 48+ degrees. I know what they represent, but there is much more yet to be deciphered before elaborating.
Finally, check out the leg on that gorgeous lady. The legs point to a location at the lower left of the canvas. I drew the circle (red) and this also has meaning.
What I wanted to express most is that you must keep it simple and in line with what these artists could have known about astronomy...basic orbital data...no more.
Ironically, the designers of Giza knew this stuff perfectly and to such precision four thousand years earlier...!
Best. Clive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This one was too simple...there must be more that I have yet to uncover.
Notice the back of the lady's shawl...its shape confirms the outer circle.
Must run...too much other work to do at the moment.
Have a great one. Best. Clive Best Don Barone
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Post by spaceyhippie on Jul 28, 2008 13:07:04 GMT -5
pepsi drinkers
it was also, irrc, common knowledge pretty much that the world was not in fact indeed flat at the time o columbus he was jus the guy who was goin around lookin like somebody was gonna take him up on it, eventually so someone did
lotta books got burned heresy as treason economics competition religion being state o being
i'm jus imagining holding up a geometry diagram from across the room from these paintings n then someone walks in quick, put the see-thru parchment down n fumble with another thingy entirely "o brother so-n-so, you startled me" not at all suspiciously "so grateful you have distinguished us wit yer presence" that sorta thingy
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Post by Charlotte on Jul 29, 2008 9:26:18 GMT -5
I just skimmed over these great paintings and words. I do think the artists knew about the asteroid belt. Morph also wrote that the shepherds are the four inner planets of the solar system, and that moreover, that Vulcan is in the tomb.
Beautiful and enlightening, have to contemplate all after work.
Charlotte
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Post by spaceyhippie on Jul 29, 2008 15:37:15 GMT -5
i think you technically hafta prove first tho that the ancient artists slash architects knew about astronomy n pi n phi n everythingy else etc before you can jus throw around stuff like this alla willy nilly slash irrespomsibly like it's potentially an actual thingy what're you, jus bein silly ? i think you also hafta prove giza is 4000 years earlier not jus that that's the general professional consensus i kid clive, he sez thingies like that to me or, maybe jus canadien satire is very dry seriously, need to find some astrological directions for radial circle surrounding n then compare n contrast to any before time specific planetary combinations turn the clock back on celestia, look at all mars venus 268s or whatever etc n where would be a logical place to start... 12:00 up as aries, scorpio ? or this would be the planetary orientation on that first easter ? the outer panels are perhaps obviously also jupiter n saturn the lower panel thus being a codex or primmer for all others and if we have a center point to measure from at giza... maybe the center of the 2400 cubit circle, perhaps, aha... or... see or... the center o that golden fkn spiral on our hosts homepage i can immediately slash elegantly confirm these specific angles wherever they actually present themselves... on the ground... ...really, it's way easier for me to jus type those numbers in... than for anyone to draw any circles o any specific degrees... n then you know it's on, exactly n get to zoom in... all relatively what's not cuddly about that ? ok, it's not gonna do a spiral curve gradually but it's not any less accurate than anything ...n if they knew the asteroid belt... they knew alotta other things... and that knowledge pack sequestered, secluded, encoded, all secret handed down from many collective generations, science o thingies or are we not allowed to assume slash pursue such designs ? y'know, when i find thingies nobody has any use for em i'm a silly silly hippie !!!
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Post by spaceyhippie on Jul 30, 2008 5:33:25 GMT -5
aha see here's the thingy pandering to the establishment like orwellia doesn't have enough of that >> you must keep it simple >> and in line with >> what these artists >> could have known >> about astronomy... >> basic orbital data... >> no more. well, then you'll miss... all the controversial thingies... like if there's a match on anything no one could possibly have known (not that we know of, anyways) (all the... truly compelling stuff) ...n refuse to even look for em when they're fallin outta trees ...landin in yer lap... standin up n wavin n sayin "hey" contextually ...n if ya did ...you'd find they're really... all over the place ...it's like... ...goin to a park... ...n sittin on the slide... starin down at yer feet... n never swing... well, not too high no such thing as a merry go round ...jus... all day... don e'er wanna play... lookin at yer own shoes... ...how they... turn the sand... ever so gently ever so ...that's you... n the land... wow, man... that's what's so wonderful about this place ...n then someone comes up behind you...? ...but, you... don't... hear em... they wanna go down the slide... but yer jus bein all rude n ignorin but that's ok, kinda there's more slides ...a bunch in a row ...well... whaddya know ? were these thingies here like, the whole fkn time ?
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Post by Charlotte on Jul 30, 2008 9:28:35 GMT -5
The paintings and geometry overlay are spectacular. Our problem is that we cannot aknwowledge that the Ancients knew. It is absurd to say the Greeks didn't know the Earth is round, look at "The School of Athens", proving also the Renaissance artists knowing it. Obviously, they were not ordinary painters. INRI
Our other problem is with this so-called "advanced civilization", which was not a civilization as we think of one, but the very ancient humanity saw and knew things naturally and devanced till we hit lead and dead. It's told by the Hindu, those before and after them, the Maya, the Hopi, the Bible, the Koran, and sometimes children will tell you the darnest things.
Charlotte
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Post by spaceyhippie on Jul 30, 2008 15:19:57 GMT -5
ufo lands buncha cavemen one o em peeks out from behind a rock the others remain hidden ufo blinks not obliged or permitted to contact any species unless all assembled step forward freely but eventually, someone's gotta pee
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Post by Aurora on Jul 31, 2008 5:36:19 GMT -5
Great thread Don... thanks for posting it at the GHF that is how I saw it. You say the painting of the Crucifixion is a copy of the one of Da Vinci. Is it possible to see the original in picture on the net ? This painting is very odd and I need to be sure it is a faithful reproduction of the original.
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Post by Don Barone on Jul 31, 2008 6:33:13 GMT -5
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Post by Aurora on Jul 31, 2008 7:01:52 GMT -5
oops sorry Don... I have read the text of Clive Ross now and realize the painting I am talking about is the central part of a tryptich by Mathias Gruenewald.
So my question is "does this picture of the tryptich and especially of the central part of it is a picture of the "original painting" ? and if yes pls refresh my memory and tell me where one can see the original tryptich of Gruenewald ? East of France or Germany ? I have a duh moment...... Did you take a close look to where the 2 arms of Christ go ? didn't you notice something very odd ?
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Post by Aurora on Jul 31, 2008 7:04:46 GMT -5
oh and also Don sorry meant to add to previous post - could you give me the link of the original discussion on the subject at Maat ? I went to Maat but got lost in the sea of threads all very interesting...... Will have to remember to check Maat and your blog Don more offen...
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Post by Aurora on Jul 31, 2008 7:20:59 GMT -5
Euraka now I remember decades ago I saw it 'the Retable of Issenheim" when I used to spend my holidays in Alsace. www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/grunewald_matthias.htmlClive is funny when he speaks of John the Baptist as the "Gent" on the right, lol..... Did you turn the painting upside down and all the way round ?
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Post by Charlotte on Jul 31, 2008 8:16:30 GMT -5
Hi Aurora,
Beautiful lamp? Thanks also for all the info.
Hi Space Hippie,
I did it again, I think. Writing that it is absurd to say that the Greeks didn't know the Earth was round, was not directed at you, but to astronomers and historians who begin a lecture even today something like "we know the Greeks thought the Earth was flat..."
Charlotte
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Post by Aurora on Jul 31, 2008 8:34:52 GMT -5
www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2007/dec/12/art2Hi Don and Charlotte, Pls see my posts to Don on the GHF Mystery board for the links of the retable and questions about it and the difference with Don's painting in his thread with the original in the Museum at Colmar - France. Don, Speaking of 23,5 did you see this thread ? www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=246883&t=246854look right below the link at the bottom of the post as far as I know there hasn't been any follow-up until now and you might want to inquire about it before everybody leave for holidays ;-) Cheers and thanks for making my day with this great retable ...... full of mysteries..... an enlargment of all the hands of the central panel is definitely in order and the feet are speaking too not only the one of Christ - that's why I absolutely need to know which one of the panels is the real one to investigate......
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Post by Don Barone on Jul 31, 2008 8:45:27 GMT -5
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Post by Don Barone on Jul 31, 2008 8:59:16 GMT -5
I wonder if the side panels are interchangeable ?
I also wonder what the original configuration was ...
Best Don Barone
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Post by Aurora on Jul 31, 2008 10:03:51 GMT -5
Hi Don,
I hate PDF it just gives me hive - any chance I can see the document in an html version ? Anyway not much time to devote on conspiracy. Could you just summarize for me what is related on the person we call Mark Harlem aka Karl Hammer ? and just give me title of his 3 books....... I was searching the net this morning and you know how this is you search for something and you get tons of sites and my eye caught a line saying that the Dutch were actually preparing themselves for the Mayan End of the World in 2012... as I am no fan of this I just ignored it but it reminds me that Karl /Mark (Karl Marks ? funny analogy lol) was from Holland hence theorically Dutch......
Now I see what the different images are about - it might just be a banal case of "mirror" image you can use in PSP for example and then forget which one is the original one....
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Post by Aurora on Jul 31, 2008 10:25:57 GMT -5
Hello Charlotte, What do you mean by beautiful lamp ? Are you speaking about my "pic" on my profile showing on the left of my posts ? This is a "teardrop" symbolizing the "tears" of the Virgin at Christ Crucifixion and this is also the name of my favorite stroke in Norway Rosemaling Painting : picasaweb.google.com/Aurora5247/MyPaintings/photo#5116783355839738578if you save my painting above and enlarge it in PSP you will see the little tendrils (lines) ending up by a almond teardrop shape serving as fillers in between leaves the Lamp analogy is interesting - But the main reason for this teardrop is I lost my dog last month and I am grieving .......
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Post by Don Barone on Jul 31, 2008 11:25:35 GMT -5
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Post by Don Barone on Jul 31, 2008 12:07:24 GMT -5
Hi Claude et all ... Seems my instincts may have been correct again ! They do appear to have been switched !!!!! From a post I made over at Ma'at ... Here is an old image from an art book which dates to around 1906 ( I think) regardless this website has many older images scanned from very old art books and what do you think it shows in regards to this painting ...Do I really have to post it ? I wonder what is really going on here ? Why have the panels been switched ? All developing into quite a mystery as usual with these types of paintings. Since this was well before World War 2 where many paintings were taken down and hidden for their own protection I would have to say that this is indeed the accurate rendition and how it was meant to be viewed. Best Don Barone
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Post by Aurora on Jul 31, 2008 13:15:05 GMT -5
Hi Don, This configuration of the panels above in the black and white picture makes more sense to me as an artist from the harmonic, symetrical and flowing point of view as the position of the bodies on the side are turned towards the central scene and emphasize it
In contrario if the panels are switched it indicates again from my artistic point of view an opposition by turning away from the central scene which could be viewed "a la Da Vinci" like the oddities in the Last Supper seeming to indicate a disavowal of official version and point out to an "heretic" one...... phonetically I note that there is "heir" in "heretic" humm....
One has to wonder now both versions the official and the other ? what do you think ?
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Post by Aurora on Jul 31, 2008 13:24:56 GMT -5
what amaze me however is the fact that on all the pictures of the central panel nobody seems to have noticed that it is impossible to be nailed on a cross with an arm passing behind the central beam which beam seems to have been placed in a way that it pass between the leaning head of Christ and his shoulder and that the arm on the side of his leaning head at the shoulder level is not visible and it looks as the beam has taken the place of the shoulder..... So I call on everybody common sense to give a try to take 2 pieces of wood and do a miniature cross and try to nail a little doll on it according to the painting to me it seems impossible - the vertical beam doesn't even seem to be straight behind the body of Christ as it should but actually angled in obliquity........ Pinch me but I know I am not dreaming........ Hope I am clear enough because it is the first time I am facing such an akward situation while describing a crucifixion........ Charlotte and Don et al what do you think ? do you see what I mean ? take a close look at Christ head leaning not on his shoulder but on the beam and the arm reappearing from behind the beam to be nailed at the end of the horizontal beam in a tricky but similingly apparent symetry...... Beam me up Scottie.......
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Post by Aurora on Jul 31, 2008 13:28:22 GMT -5
Hi Don, thanks for the compliment about my paintings - they are not all there I have more but they are private ones for family events and some private orders.
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Post by Aurora on Jul 31, 2008 13:38:21 GMT -5
Amazing now I read that the beam is shaped like a cross bow ? do I get that right ? do you see what I see ? Christ is not straight agaisnt the vertical beam but nailed at a certain angle (wish I was there to measure it) so his arm can actually be squeezed in the bow behind the beam and resurface on the other side and be nailed on the horizontal beam appearing to be placated behind the vertical one.......... gee talk about "twisting" things........ here is a link with a lot of explanation - I only skimmed the first page let me know if there is more of interest when you have the time findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MDO/is_1_31/ai_114050791another angle to figure Don ? do we set up a trip to measure it in the future ?
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Post by Don Barone on Jul 31, 2008 21:48:52 GMT -5
Hi Aurora ... Seems to be simply an optical illusion. Here is a close-up I have managed to find ... From this image: Click for a huge image ...Best Don Barone
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Post by Aurora on Jul 31, 2008 23:08:21 GMT -5
thanks Don - I can't explain it but from the painter point of view this is not an optical illusion but rather a modification like if you tried to conceal a painting underneath and couldn't mask it entirely......... I am still convinced there is something odd there and your enlargment is priceless. Thanks bunches......... in my theory of colors it is actually rare than 2 people see a color the same way (meaning agree on the same hue) so I understand perfectly you and I see this phenomenon differently this is not the least surprising...... both pov may yield interesting things down the road and find a point of convergence :-)
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Post by Charlotte on Aug 1, 2008 7:51:30 GMT -5
Hello Charlotte, What do you mean by beautiful lamp ? Are you speaking about my "pic" on my profile showing on the left of my posts ? This is a "teardrop" symbolizing the "tears" of the Virgin at Christ Crucifixion and this is also the name of my favorite stroke in Norway Rosemaling Painting : picasaweb.google.com/Aurora5247/MyPaintings/photo#5116783355839738578if you save my painting above and enlarge it in PSP you will see the little tendrils (lines) ending up by a almond teardrop shape serving as fillers in between leaves the Lamp analogy is interesting - But the main reason for this teardrop is I lost my dog last month and I am grieving ....... Hello Aurora, At first glance I saw a teardrop, fluidic and transparent, then I thought it must be an unusual lamp because of flat on the bottom. In any case it's beautiful as are your paintings, especially the "Bauern Malerei" so familiar to me. I know how it feels loosing a pet they are the greatest friends Good and happy days Charlotte PS I would like to read Don's link too, but have the hardest time clicking on PDF files.
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Post by Don Barone on Aug 1, 2008 8:04:36 GMT -5
Hi Charlotte and Aurora ... Here is the link to Acrobat Reader. Pick any of the old versions ( I prefer 5.0) to start with and upgrade as required. www.oldversion.com/program.php?n=acrobatCheers Don Barone
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Post by Don Barone on Aug 1, 2008 8:08:22 GMT -5
And here is another close-up Aurora ... cheers Don Barone
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Post by Aurora on Aug 1, 2008 8:31:50 GMT -5
Thanks Don but for me my point of reference is your first image on this thread on top of page 1 which is very clear as opposed to the more you enlarge the more it becomes blurred. Just take another look at your first pic on top of page 1 and you will see a very well defined white borderline passing all the way from the top down along the head and cutting the shoulder of Christ (this line I must stress is the edge line of the vertical beam on which his body appear to be resting and his feet appear to be nailed....
But to be honest there are so many special effects on this painting that it boggles the mind... So I will leave it at this.......
Oother interesting feature is the feet of John the Baptist (the gent of the right, lol) marking 10:10 o clock - the "M" shape of the border of his robe with his 2 legs and a subtle tiny weeny central part of his knee being visible as mark of the Initiate which is another teaser considering that he baptised Jesus not the other way round and could be considered as the Teacher-Initiator and Jesus as the Initiate.... but then I don't want to open another can of worms so feel free to disregard tha last comment.... being on the verge to take a sabbatical I am not sure to be able to continue the follow-up for long anyway :-)
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