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Post by Charlotte on Mar 3, 2005 10:20:03 GMT -5
The "initiative-of-constatation" happens according to the "center-of-gravity-of-associative-experiencing". When I'm motivated to do something I go to the store room of my experiences to think together how I want to do it? Gornahoor and Beelzebub must have been tripping, as they say, in the Hrhaharhtzaha, that's Gornahoor's workshop out of which had been pumped all the results of "cosmic processes", because Beelzebub's 'initiative of constatation' of everything proceeding in him "gradually and almost imperceptibly became the function of (his) essence alone", and his essence "not only became the unique all-embracing initiator of the constating of everything proceeding in" him, but his essence alone also "perceived and fixed" all new experiences he had. There must be an other who sees the proceedings and essence perceiving and fixing things. "From the moment that my essence began to perceive impressions directly and to constate independently that, from what was proceeding, there was being entirely destroyed, as it were, in my common presence, firstly, the parts of my planetary body, and then, little by little, also the localizations of the 'second' and 'third' being-centers. At the same time, a constatation was definitely made that the functioning of these latter centers (the feeling and moving centers) passed gradually to my 'thinking center' and became proper to it, with the consequence that the 'thinking-center,' with the increasing intensity of its functioning, became the 'unique-powerful-perceiver' of everything actualized outside of itself and the autonomous initiator of the constating of everything proceeding in the whole of my presence as well as outside of it." In these two paragraphs are Roses While Beelzebub had this wonderful and then still to his Reason incomprehensible being-experience, his essence friend Mister Harharkh was occupied pulling some of the many "levers and switches" attached to the table on which they were laying. But Gornahoor made the mistake of taking a lot of worldly baggage with him which "made his planetary body more tense than was necessary", consequently received a shock, things were speeding up, and because they were in a vacuum there was no resistance, Gornahoor, finding "himself at a certain hight above the chair" when they had 'actually" been placed on a table, had nothing to hold on to, physically or mentally, "he began to drift", or "as our dear Mullah Nassr Eddin says, to flounder like a 'puppy-who-has-fallen-into-a-deep-pond". Sounds like Gornahoor went on a bummer, and when Beelzebub looked over and sah his friend trying to maneuver out of this "great difficulty", it changed his marvelous "being-experience, and in (his) common presence the usual 'inner-being-experiencing' was resumed." I can just hear a hippie saying: good thing it brought Beelzebub down rather than him being drawn into Gornahoor's bummer. Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 5, 2005 11:14:30 GMT -5
With "an intonation not proper to his own voice" Beelzebub wishes to make a sincere confession "just to you" he says, "one of my direct heirs who must inevitably represent the sum of all my deeds during the periods of the process of my past being-existence . . ."
Beelzebub wishes to confess "sincerely" that when his essence, to which the parts of his presence were subject, "had independently decided to take a personal part in the understanding of the scientific experiments which Gornahoor demonstrated with his new invention, which demonstrating part he had entered "without the least compulsion from the outside, yet, in spite of it all, (his) essence allowed to creep into (his) being and to be developed, side by side with the strange experiencings, a criminally egoistic anxiety for the safety of my personal existence."
Beelzebub tells Hassein that this was the first and last time this happened to him in all the periods of his being-existence. There was more experimenting and experiencing between Beelzebub and Gornahoor which I haven't yet data enough to "elucidate". Took me almost 2 hours wondering what he is talking about because these questions "concern exclusively only our family" he says to his grandson.
If we, this humanity, are his family or heirs "who must inevitably represent the sum of all his deeds during the periods of the process of (his) past being-experience", it may have been the period in our downward evolutiong (experimenting and experiencing) we lost our innocence and fear crept into our essence. Or did fear creep into our essence when we lost trust/faith/innocence, as it does to this day.
This time is recorded in "Man, the Cosmic Rosetta Stone" when a child becomes aware of a world outside itself and at first trusts only its mother, then its father and those it sees often and do it no harm.
Beelzebub and Mr. Gornahoor are archetype's. His "essence-friend Harharkh" was once considered the greatest scientist in the Universe by all three-brained beings of all planets, but "is now", says Beelzebub, "though he still continues to exist, not only considered not 'great,' but thanks to his own result, that is to say, to his own son, is what our dear Mullah Nassr Eddin would call a 'has-been' or, as he sometimes says in such cases, 'He-is-already-sitting-in-an-old-American-galosh."
Because he continues to exists, it seems Mister Gornahoor is more or less our essence friend, the inventor and experimentor in us, in thought and action.
The first rose from the new crop which I cut yesterday is bautifully half open and flawless, but the leaf's, though healthy, have redish-brown speckles or is it spreckles on them, is for Harharkh who has grown on me by now. But why does he have the planetary body of a raven?
An enjoyable weekend to all
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 6, 2005 12:43:18 GMT -5
It just occurred to me that the process called "Djartklom" might be the process of synthesizing, and certain combinations thereof together with "the striving-to-reblend-into-a-whole of the active parts of Ether", (I'm going to call the "Omnipresent Okidanokh" Azoth or Ether from now on to see if it works and makes sense) which would be electricity and magnetism, "there arise in planets from what are called the "minerals" which compose their interior presence, definite formations of varying densities, as for instance, "mineraloids," "gases," "metalloids," "metals," and so on . . ." Gornahoor will demonstrate how these are transformed "one into another; and how the vibrations flowing from these transformations constitute just that "totality-of-vibrations" which gives the planets themselves the possibility of stability in the process called the "common-system-harmonious-movement." It isn't the unceasing transformations of minerals, gases, and metals one into the other, but the "vibrations" caused by these transformations which keep chaos at bay. These "vibrations" are also called "etherial waves". Roger Bacon, maybe still thought of as another quack, states that "the elements are made out of (Greek letters?) and every element is converted into the nature of another element". How did he know? Neither Gurdjieff nor Bacon, among others, can say and describe these things without having mastery over matter which makes them magicians. My friend Harharkh seems to be still in his enormous workshop, because he needs now and always "materials from the outside" which his pupils will supply "by means of appliances which (he) has prearranged". Like other such men and women, Gurdjieff probably prepares the mind of the reader to plant the next concept. Beelzebub remarks that Gornahoor "was tapping with his left foot on a certain "something" which resembled the "only on Earth" famous "Morse transmission apparatus". I love Gornahoor and a big smile comes over my face because the Raven must have summoned his powers, how else could "a little later slowly ascend(ed) from the lower part of the Hrhaharhtzaha a small something like a box, also with transparent walls, within which, as it proved later, were certain minerals, metalloids, metals, and various gases in liquid and solid states." Back to page 154. The Hrhaharhtzaha lol, I swear he makes one say or write it, is not his workshop as I erroneously stated before, but his new and most important invention and looked like what we humans would call "a huge-electric-lamp". Like the just mentioned box ascending from the lower part of this most important invention of Gornahoor: the huge electric lamp--which walls were also of "certain transparent materials, the appearance of which reminded" Beelzebub of what we call "glass." There is a contradiction here: the new and most important invention resembled a huge-electric-lamp, but "the interior of this special structure was rather like a smallish room with a door that could be hermetically closed." I think the huge electic lamp is our sun "which neither lights nor heats", but is like "a lense by which the rays of the primordial light become materialized", as mentioned before. I think all this has to do with the sun and the eye of glass, so to speak, being of the same nature, the eye can be hermetically sealed, and on page 167 Gornahoor "closes that part of the surface of" his most important invention, "the composition of which had the property of allowing 'rays' to pass through it . . ." The top part is the eyelid allowing rays to penetrate. Now we have something like a box through which transparent walls we can see "certain minerals, metalloids, metals and various gases in liquid and solid states", and we can observe Gornahoor with the help of some appliances "at one side of the table" and "with complicated manipulation" taking "from the box some of what is called 'red copper', put it on a plate and said: " ' This metal is a definite planetary crystallization and is one of the densities required for the said stability in the process called the Common-system-harmonious-movement. It is a formation from preceeding processes of the action of the parts of" Azoth, "and at the present moment I wish to allow the subsequent transformation of this metal to proceed artificially and acceleratedly by means of the peculiarities of the same factors. " 'I wish to aid artificially the evolution and involution of its elements toward a greater density, or, on the contrary, toward their transformation back to a primal state'." Again, aiding in the evolution and involution of elements makes Gurdjieff a master over them, and what is called 'red copper' which Harharkh took from the box must have been a "metalloid" called orichalcum because it is a metallic compound akin to copper and bronze, a magical metal having to do with transformation I gathered reading Plato's Atlantis. And since Beelzebub is describing cosmic laws which were given to Poseidon and regulated by him, and were inscribed on a pillar of orichalcum at his temple in the middle of Atlantis. Concerning the "box with transparent walls", it may be Pandora's Box. I may be all wrong but I'm feeling very well and hope you do too Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 7, 2005 10:07:49 GMT -5
Gornahoor tells Beelzebub that the "construction" in which they are at the moment, which must be the enormous workshop of Mr. Harharkh called Khrh "possesses the property of not allowing any vibrations arising from any source whatsoever to pass through it, with the exception of certain vibrations arising from nearby concentrations; and these latter vibrations can be perceived by the organs of sight" of normal three-brained beings.
Moreover, there is a law by which the "momentum (of) the "vibrations" or "rays aquire the property of acting on the organs of perception of beings only after they have passed a limit defined by science in the following formula: "the-result-of-the-manifestation-is-proportionate-to the-force-of-striving-received-from-the-shock".
The shock is caused, I think, as he says in the next paragraph, by the clash of the parts of Ether: matter and spirit which "has the strenght of great power, the result of the clash", the third part and electrifier or vivifier "is manifested much further than the place of its arising."
This manifesting in proportion to how hard we strive to know ourselves and thereby the Universe, ties in nicely with my thinking that the more we become conscious of how natural laws works and also re-member the past, individually and collectively, to that extend the Universe expands, and if we don't forget again it stays thus expanded. And the great power resulting from the clash of the "Holy Affirming", spirit, and the "Holy Denying" matter manifests as light or the "Holy Reconciling" by which things can be seen much further than where it happens, or to whom it happens.
This then would be the observer created reality of quantum mechanics, called the Kopenhagen interpretation which science, not allowing other factors, has declared dead. I am glad there is, according to Gurdjieff, the easy to understand concept of a "center-of-gravity-of-associative-experiencing" in the individual and also in the collective, the result is an ever changing quantum state of "everything-representing-one-world", according and proportionate to our striving. Something like that.
And when the wonder of reconciling opposites happens to us in some unexpected moment, "the mind is flooded with light" says Plato, and maybe this is what Gurdjieff means by saying that Gornahoor "pressed some other botton and suddenly the whole interior" of his most important invention-appliance of his workshop was filled with the same blinding light" he experienced when he was outside this appliance. It makes me think that microcomically this most important appliance is the head and the enormous workshop the body with all the other appliances and organs of perception.
All I know for sure is, that in a flash of recognition of the true nature of a thing the entire Universe lights up all the way to the beginning of The Consciousness.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 10, 2005 10:39:27 GMT -5
I checked some yesterday and found that the Kopenhagen interpretation is very much alive and still widely accepted. I like it very much because it means that every person participates and is co-responsible in all that's happening everywhere, or as Simon once put it, this interpretation is "observer dependent", to which came the best response possible: it is "observer attendet" or "attendant" to him, I forgot, best, because observer and attendant are inseperably dynamic, or static, confirming once again the words of my philosophy teacher: "Man and the cosmos occur together". Must be also the reason why in man the microcosm the macrocosm is recorded.
I can contrast Gurdjieff's "the-result-of-the-manifestation-is-proportioned-to-the-force-of-striving-from-the-shock", to: the 'striving' being thinking and weighing a matter in the balance, the activity of "the matter moving Nous" according to Madam Blavatsky, would be the wave function and the "clash" its collapse which occurrs when a measurement or our mind is made up. I think this is Beelzebub's "process of Djartklom or "transsubstatiaten" of cosmic substances to reblend into a whole. This is philosophical and scientific because the whole is the particle and wave together holding an event in place, tending to the observer as long as he looks.
I have to look away now and go to work.
Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Mar 10, 2005 12:20:37 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, these days (as in the last weeks as well) i have to perform some real complex work, which must be done without too much interruptions, lets us say for a mail-posting with you, or members of some other web-forums (fora), cause this work needs a very (permanenty) concentrated focus on lots of related (computer)-tasks and processes ! and that Gurdjieff-topic is not the theme for a fast simple response, as you know ! ok, today i spend myself a free-day (tomorrow) for some more private oriented activities and things i have to do. ( as a single living "poor lonesome greyhaired cowboy" there is nobody else to perform my very own affairs including the housekeeping routines and so on !" ) ---- i have to go now, and i wish you and the million other here a nice weekend ! we will meet us next week , i hope so ! ciao and cheers: Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 11, 2005 10:41:59 GMT -5
Good to hear from you Bernie Yea, this Gurdjieff topic is complicated, obliges one's brain "to sweat in entirely new ways" says Anthony West. Every morning I don't know where and how to begin, then I think "today I'll get done with at least 3 pages", well "denkste Puppe" lol, but I like discovering things. How come you don't have a computer in you castle so you can sit there on weekends too, instead of going for nature walks and working in your private jungle and doing housework Harharkh tells Beelzebub of his "first personal scientific deductions" about "the causes and conditions" necessary to allow the process of crystallization of "definite formations" of the seperate parts of Ether IN the planets themselves. There is a "law-conformable" and a "non-law-conformable" process of transsubstantiation of cosmic essences or being-foods. The unlawful exchange of substances of Ether "is in the presence of every planet, its seperate parts are localized in a medium", a "mineral which was at the given moment in the place where the said" unlawful transformation of substances occurred. If the said mineral "has an affinity-of-vibration" with the active part fohat or solar fire, of Ether, "this active part blends with the presence of the said medium and becomes an inseperable part of it", due to "a World-law called Symetrical-entering". It would mean that whatever medium is vivified by fohat stays energized and can actively serve a purpose. The same is true for the microcosm human: where there is affinity there is sympathy and minds can meet. After the blending of the elements of "the medium", Gornahoor doesn't give a name, with the at the moment given parts of Ether, this conglamoration represents "the corresponding densities required in planets, that is to say, various kinds of metalloids or even metals, as for instance, the metal I have placed in this sphere, and in which there will proceed artificially at the moment, at my wish, the action of striving-to-reblend-into-a-whole the parts of the (Ether), and which metal, as I have already said, exists under the name of red-copper." Gornahoor again intimates that he is an alchemist: he "wishes to aid artificially the evolution and involution of -- elements toward a greater density, or, on the contrary, toward their transformation back to a primal state". And at his wish there will proceed artificially in the metal red copper the reblending of the parts of Ether. Worth repeating is that red copper, according to Gurdjieff, "is a formation from preceding processes of the action of the Omnipresent" Ether, resulting in "a definite planetary crystallization and is one of the densities required for the said stability in the process called the Common-system-harmonious movement". If I take this red copper to be orichalcum, the "Common-system-harmonious-movement" would be "the vital function" of the "Theran magicians" of "keeping the worlds mana at a certain level", according to "Uncle Ancient". Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 18, 2005 9:33:10 GMT -5
Over the past couple days I read to page 246 in Beelzebub, on page 233 "Saint Buddha" is mentioned for the first time, and on page 246 "Saint Kirmininasha", so the article "Gurdjieff and Christianity" at GH came in handy. Gurdjieff:
On page 169 Beelzebub says that re-blending into a whole happens when reflections "from outside (go) back to the place of (their) arising." I made the note 'we project ?' And the author of said article agrees: "As long as people project a good and evil having some objective existence outside of themselves spiritual evolution is curtailed". This is why "collective thinking has to come first" if you ask Fern.
I don't have time now but like to wiseacre some on the article which brings up four or so parallels, above and below.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 20, 2005 11:12:24 GMT -5
This trinity of independent forces, "Triamazikamno", of the "Omnipresent-Active-Element-Okidanokh" Gurdjieff belabors, is, according to other writers and teachers also, the beginning of conscious evolution. The writer of the said article states that Gurdjieff "characterized" the "first force - as arising from the causes proceeding in the Sun Absolute and issuing from it by momentum." I'm not sure about Gurdjieff's "Sun Absolute", but take it to be "the fire God lighted from the ray of the First mother, one in three", of Plato, "which we now call the sun", which, conveys Madame Blavatsky, is "the lense by which the rays of the primordial light become materialized, are concentrated upon our Solar System, and produce all the correlations of forces", repeating some of a previous post. From the article "This force, like the other two, is totally independent. Kronbernkzoin called this force "Good." When the momentum of this force is spent, there is then a striving to reblend with its source, the Sun Absolute. This fundamental World Law is characterized as, "the effects of a cause must always re-enter the cause." This second backward-flowing force, which must continually resist the momentum of the first force, he called "Evil," or the active force. From the clash and friction of these two forces is formed the resultant, which in relation to the other two is considered neutralizing." To mind comes the famous "Life-evil", or "Demon est Deus Inversus". Or "spirit involution causes matter evolution", spirit being pure and good, matter being tainted and evil, matter being equated with women, the resisting principle, and therefore, religious leaders with their "criminal wiseacring" and "super wiseacring" tell their sleeping on one hand, and power-conscious on the other, followers that we women are evil and that's how they justify treating women worse than dirt, but they are loosing, very slowly, but loosing, because "the effects of a cause must always re-enter the cause" from what goes around comes around to Roger Penrose' star collapsing back to a singularity. This active trinity force at the heart of phenomenal creation and working in our daily lives, makes more sense than any other explaination I heard so far. Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 21, 2005 13:06:27 GMT -5
The trinity of affirming, denying, and reconciling, forward and backward flowing force, the "clash and friction" causing or forming the resulting neutralizing third, but this neutralizing third must be at once a new affirming which is again opposed and so on. This law of relationships of three can be seen in the greater and lesser, and different planes by three-brained beings. There was darkness, null/void and then light. Above, below, and the golden mean. Father, mother, and child. Fire, water, steam. Proton, electron, and neutron. Salt, Sulfur, and mercury. Thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. Satva, Rajas, and Tamas. Amun, Ra, and Ptah. Movement, light, and sound. Adam, Eve, and the Androgen. And so on But the three indipendent forces working in the all pervading Okidanokh of Gurdjieff; or Ether, not the mundane ether but "the soul of matter", says Madam, is spirit kissing matter making it to shine, the third, because Beelzebub himself uses the word "vivifying". The "fundamental World Law" which is characterized as, "the effects of a cause must always re-enter the cause" is beautifully described in "The Cosmic Doctrine" of Dion Fortune, philosophically expressed but agreeable with modern science. It is with some quotes from this Doctrine I wanted to answer Don's question aeons ago at Ma'at: "Why do things spin". Sophie said that "when we figure out what started the whole thing 'spinning' we have something." In Dion Fortune's "The Cosmic Doctrine" a "world-famous philosopher and teacher" says: "The Unmanifest is the only Unity. Manifestation begins when duality occurs. "The prime duality is 'space' and 'movement'. The first manifestation was a current in space--the metaphor I must use may convey nothing to your mind. All I can say is that 'space' was moving: you will find these words the clue to much." I imagin the current in space being caused by 'it' becoming wonderously conscious: "Good God I AM" "Now, when space moves it has this peculiar quality--being frictionless it never loses momentum, but continues to flow. When space moves, two forces are at work: (a) The force which causes it to move, being the desire of space for momentum. (b) The force which has hitherto caused it not to move, being the desire for inertia. These two factors are present in all motion, but the desire for movement, being the stronger, overcomes the desire for inertia, and the desire for inertia continues as a check upon the movement. Therefore the movement is pulled up slightly. That is why there is no such thing as a straight line in the cosmos. All movement, therefore, has a slight curve in its projection; therefore, eventually it returns to the point whence it started and forms a spinning ring. Now, the prime movement is just a flowing of space that returns after long aeons whence it started, and then renews its journey. This sets up a spinning belt of enormous circumference. This belt spins in one plane for immense aeons of time; spins with a changeless spinning. But its tendency is to communicate its motion to the space about it, which leads more space to flow into the spinning." The last sentence corresponds to Fern's space awakening and moving, which aroused, and does to this day in so many ways, a space curiosity, and the space about the spinning belt said "I want to partake of what's going on" and "flows into the spinning" to wait for things to come because space is conscious for him who is conscious, as in the now famous "We don't see things as they are, but we see things as we are." "The spinning in one place continues until the stresses which it generates evoke a new movement, and a second current in space is set up at right angles to the first, and the same process is repeated. We have now two spinning planes, the one within the other, and it is worthy of note that the second plane forms outside the first, and is therefore larger in diameter. This second circle is not the resisting force, it's just a big spinning in space so far. Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 23, 2005 10:11:41 GMT -5
I have to go into my routine to re-inforce the path.
Fern said many times: for everything you want to know about the greater there is a parallel in your daily life. How the cosmos came into being I can only understand in terms of 'that which is at rest tends to movement and that which moves tends to rest'. Whether the finite cosmos or I are at rest or sleeping because a "day" is over, we tend toward waking up even though we're not aware of the "tending" because we're sleeping, in which sleeping or unmanifest state we have, or are "the infinate potency which has not occurred."
When awake the same holds true: when I sit here I tend to get up and even while doing something I tend to sitting down again. To move or to rest are caused by desire. Who desires? The cosmos and we do.
When a new cosmos is becoming, the two rings or planes spin at right angles for aeons "and the whole of evolution turns upon the difference in size between the two planes", according to the world teacher Dion Fortune mentions, not to be confused with the channelings of starlight, moonchild, and former goddess from Egypt. The lady was an Occultist who lived in England at the turn of the century.
The first movement in space flows frictionless and its motion drags more space into it, stresses are set up "and a second current" is set up, the "Ring Pass Not", which has its parallels in our daily lives too. When the outer, larger the ring pass not "has attained the same speed as the smaller and older", the older is attracted toward the newer, and these two circles attract and repell each other until the ring pass not "sets up its steady revolution . . ."
Its a bit more complicated, but basically, the ring pass not sets a limit to chaos, keeps us from going overboard in mind because we always have to come back to the palm of the hand, and daily life also.
Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Mar 24, 2005 11:21:09 GMT -5
Dear CHARLOTTE, DON, DAZ and all others of this highly freqented forum ;D i wish some nice relaxing and exciting HAPPY EASTER. i think DON will have some outdoor activities with his childs -- looking for a cute giant bunny --- searching colored eggs with his kids !?? --- and LOTTE will be walking through the nature as well, looking for supernatural wisdom and paranormal happiness, hoping to meet a friendly old man, seating beneath an old oak-tree, apparently the re-incarnation of Gurdjieff, then having an inspiring speach with him, while he suddenly is saying "BYE BYE -LOTTE", thus disappearing in the air, giving a last wink from the bright shining spring-clouds .................. ! Not to forget DAZ using the EASTER-vacation for digging with an high-tech electronic GPRS equipment on the search for some hidden old celtic or merowingan gold and jewelry .. ! hello GUYS and GIRLS: hope to meet you again next week !? -- LOT OF GREETINGs from a spring-facing BAVARIA ! ciao and servus: Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 26, 2005 9:30:38 GMT -5
The words Chaos and Cosmos, though not called or thought of as rings by modern science, are well known to most people, the Ring-Pass-Not less so. The spinning rings are metaphors.
The Cosmic Doctrine
"These three movements are the 'three primaries' of the cosmos--the first Trinity. That is why the Supreme Being in this manifestation is always conceived of as a Trinity and three is the fundamental number. Everything in the end is reducible to these three influences. Whatever subsequent stresses arise may be analysed into the balancing of these three forces:
(a) The force of the Ring-Cosmos, which tends toward the centre.
(b) The force of the Ring-Chaos which tends toward outer space.
(c) The force of the Ring-Pass-Not which holds the balance between them and prevents either of these forces from going to extremes.
The Ring-Pass-Not, however, is derived from the Ring-Cosmos, and therefore partakes of its nature rather than that of the Ring-Chaos. The Ring-Chaos must always be thought of as having its affinity with the outer space of the Unmanifest, and a tendency to return to unmanifstation."
From "resist not evil" to the wiser man walks away from an argument.
We can see or could argue "Intelligent Design" in the greater by intelligent design in the lesser this wise:
When I get up in the morning I make a plan for the day, sometimes I plan the day before, on one level a previous life-time, on a cosmic scale a previous day of Brahma.
I follow my plan as best as possible, dealing with, and overcoming resistances from arising situations until I encounter the ring-pass-not: the stores have closed or I am too tired to go any further, have to go home, rest, and re-group.
If there were no intelligent design there would be perpetual chaos in the greater just as we would spend a day without rhyme, reason, or purpose, like a lost homeless on the streets looking for it.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 29, 2005 8:36:35 GMT -5
Glad you checked in the other day Bernie. Hope you and everyone had a relaxing Easter, I don't know about exciting. I actually worked instead of driving to the mountains to sit with some wise man or even women under an oak-tree, which could happen spontaneously though. "Supernatural wisdom and para-normal happiness", I would be content with natural wisdom to live a good life, and "normal" happiness, unless, of course, you mean those sublime momments when on the polen path The Cosmos, and the Rays I think I found Gurdjieff's "Sun Absolute" in the "Central Sun" of the Occultist's, or Plato's "Fire" which God lighted. Dion Fortune's "The Cosmic Doctrine" "The movement of the Ring-Cosmos sets up secondary swirls within the area of its influence, its tendency is to draw more and more space into its spin. It cannot extend externally because it is limited by the sphere of the Ring-Chaos; it therefore extends itself internally, so that the spinning belt finally becomes a spinning disc with the centre immobile. "The spinning disc, being rotated by the secondary movement which is the Ring-Pass-Not, becomes the spinning sphere." (One has to draw the last two paragraph's to see it clearly) "The interaction of the two forms of movement is naturally neutralizing, consequently there is a break-up of the simple movement of the disc into a series of compromises. The chief point of activity ceases to be the circumference and becomes the centre. "Though the Ring-Cosmos, the Ring-Chaos, and the Ring-Pass-Not each continue in one place, and they spin in their own place, the synthesis of their movements give rise to a series of revolving radii. These radii are the Rays." Here is another interdependent threesome striving to and reblending to give rise to the next step. "You must conceive of them (the three rings) as a series of revolving spirals linking the centre to the circumference and see: (a) The influence of the Ring-Chaos in the force which causes the outgoing current to flow towards the periphery. (b) The influence of the Ring-Cosmos in the force which causes the current to flow toward the centre. (c) The centre is the synthesis of all the forces, and the balancing of them. "It will be perceived then, that upon the Cosmic plane the Rays give rise to the Central Sun. It's a beautiful morning in LA Charlotte
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Post by coggas on Mar 29, 2005 19:08:56 GMT -5
Hi Team,
I'm still here, had to update the email address.
Back on-Line.
Regards,
Cogga's.
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 30, 2005 8:34:07 GMT -5
What a nice surprise Cogga's, I thought you abandoned ship, now I have to go and cut the best rose I can find. As you can see I left the Karnak again and enjoy re-reading some in Dion Fortune's Cosmic Doctrine to augment my understanding of Beelzebub's tale, and some information for Don why things spin, refreshing my memory in the process. Some more good stuff thanks to Dion The Philosopher and world teacher says that the three great 'primaries' are "strictly external to the Cosmos they have generated, we have a purely cosmic movement--the movement of the flowing Rays--the Rays that flow out and return. "Now these Rays--these circular rays, which are reflected back from the Ring-Pass-Not--must be thought of in pairs, each one being in special association with its opposite number, so that the true movement is a figure 8, (on its side) the outgoing flow being above in one half of the circle, and below in the opposite half." "In the opposite half" is vage, I would have to first consider the figure eigth upright as above so below, or 2, and then on its side making a line through it would make 2 times 2 or 4, the "quaternary" my philosophy teacher consistently emphasized. And everybody knows that the figure 8 is the 'eternity' symbol, and 'crowns' the magicians head, so to speak. I have to run to work Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 31, 2005 8:51:11 GMT -5
The forming of atoms
The Rays "which must be thought of in pairs" as described in the previous post, are "new movements set(ting) up stresses among themselves which give rise to a series of concentric rings of movement so that the Cosmos becomes divided up into segments of influence. The movements of the spinning Rays and the concentric Circles are known as the great secondaries'. There are twelve Rays and seven concentric circles.
"Within the segments are set up the movements which are known as 'Tangentials'. The nearest analogy to these is the Brownian movements of atoms, the intersecting of the Circles and Rays giving rise to angles, and the sharp tangential movement thus occasioned introduces a new factor into the Cosmos.
"You now perceive that we have studied three types of movement.
(a) The interaction of the primal Rings.
(b) The interaction of the secondary Rays and Circles.
(c) The tangential movements occasioned by the opposition of the angles in the secondaries.
"In these tangential movements the lines of force are continually crossing each other's paths, being confined to small segments of the Cosmos. Where they cross, a vortex is set up by the opposing influences' modifying of each others actions. Therefore, instead of proceeding in these slight curves which give rise to enormous circles, they are deflected into a new movement and, gyrating about each other, become relatively static, thus setting up a composite unit--two forces, which no longer are influenced independently by the attraction of the greater forces, but are influenced together. Thus are atoms formed--two interlocking forces, setting up a vortex and gyrating about each other instead of circling the limits of the Cosmos."
The parallel in daily life to this works out fine. There is one moving humanity which "set up stresses among themselves", get on each others nerves, so they "split up", move apart with like-minded people and influence each other. Being "confined to small segments", a small goup, they continually cross "each others path" set up vortexes not only by the air they move when walking by each other, but also in thought. To get along they modify their own, consequently "each others actions", giving rise to a new situation of settling down, so to speak, getting to know each other better they "become relatively static . . ." A composite unit is set up by "two forces, which no longer are influenced independently by the attractions of the greater forces, but are influenced together." Thus are atoms and marriages formed "two interlocking forces" moving about each other "instead of circling the limits of the" Earth.
Much happens in between, but basically, if it is not true in the lesser it is not true in the greater.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 1, 2005 9:17:05 GMT -5
The different types of atoms, and Gurdjieff's fundamental world law: the effects of a cause must always re-enter the cause."
Like the Ring-Cosmos and the Ring-Chaos, the "prime atom" consists of two opposing movements", the latter act "as units, perceive the attraction of the movements about them and begin to move in their turn, and the same process occurs again", Shiva as the creator dances.
The primal atoms "are simply vortives, but the vortices can move through space as a waterspout can move over the ocean, and these vortices can be induced to assume a secondary movement. It is this secondary movement which I refer to as being of an angular path.
"So you will get the different atoms types of atom from the prime atom, which is merely a spinning, to the spinning atom which moves in a triangle; the type which makes a square, the type which describes a five-sided figure, and a six-sided figure, etc.
"These atoms attract each other, and can draw together and adhere to each other by means of what, metaphorically speaking, I will call the facets of their orbits. Thereby they can form alliances among themselves."
I know this is basic, it's now a family, or cult, or organization, a nation, a humanity, galactic families . . .
"Thus different types of atoms arise in the Cosmos and begin to gather themselves together into composite bodies. Each composite body, as it increases in size, increases also its power of attraction, so that the tendency of the Cosmos is to aggregation, and the aggregates form adjustments among themselves, so that new forces arise periodically.
"You will perceive that we have now described, in addition to the great Ring forces of the Cosmos, the formation of an uncountable number of minute centers of stability of varying types, and the continued organization of the reactions among these centres.
"You will also perceive that great phases would be gone through in the course of this evolution, for each new force that arose had to radiate out through the entire Cosmos until turned back in its course by the Ring-Pass-Not, and it would only be after it had returned whence it arose and so completed its circle, that it could become a constant influence in the cosmos."
The last paragraph is beautiful and logical in its simplicity. The Cosmos of modern science is finite, it is the philosophers Ring-Pass-Not. The microcosm human is finite with its Ring-Pass-Not, but as Mr. Hall would say, it's only the light bulb which burns out, the electricity remains. Or, the Earth is but so big, and when one goes traveling round circle one ends up where one began, has interacted with many people, like the atom with other atoms, gained understanding by experience, and like the atom could become a constant influence, in their neighbourhood at least.
For how long have the Hindus taught the days and nights of Brahma, the great cycles, "a Day being the time when an aspect of the Cosmos is within what you would call the positive area of the magnetic field generated by the spinning Rings; and a Night when it is in the negative area."
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 4, 2005 8:28:55 GMT -5
Snippets from Dion Fortune's Cosmic Doctrine "You have spread before you a Cosmos which arose out of space through movement, and which is movement and nothing else; and you have seen how the stresses of forces generated by these movements have given rise to an infinite umber of vortices, built upon exactly the same principle as the Great Vortex which is the Cosmos, because the same laws hold good upon every scale of manifestation, being laws of relationship. You will then see that relationship occurs between the new centres of force thus built, and they tend to form new Cosmoi among themselves, built upon the same principle." These relationships are the "boats that move by themselves without paddle", so I hope the orthos don't go looking for such boats below as is their habit Or say that the Ancients in their ignorance imagined such things and it's "a myth". "Dances of atoms give rise to new Ring-Cosmos, and the story begins again; these new universes, as they are called, while they have the same laws as the Cosmos before described, are also influenced by that framework of the Cosmos which was built before they began, and you will find that this law holds good throughout all manifestation." And so we stand on the shoulders of previous civilizations. "We will recapitulate the teachings in relation to the Rays, the Circles and the vortices. "The Rays and the circles are part of the primary movement of the Cosmos. These, together with the Rings, remain constant in the Cosmos, and are referred to as the Cosmic Currents. "The Vortices are of another nature. The primary movements are circular. The Vortices start as straight movements, which, encountering opposition, assume a secondary circular movement." Maybe here we could say that that is why things spin, it seems to take forever to have it crystal clear. "There is, therefore, always a pair of forces concerned in the creation of the primal atom, and this fundamental duality extends into all combinations of which the atom is the base. "You will observe that whenever a particular sequence or series of units occurs in the rhythmical functioning of a movement, this series acts as the conditioning framework of whatever subsequent elaborations and combinations may be built up upon that foundation. "For instance, supposing a prime movement of an atom to be a three-sided tangential--A to B, B to C and C back to A, whatever secondary movements may arise (and remember this, that movement in a straight line is never so maintained after the original impulse dies away), conflicting forces reduce it to a modification of the primal circular, so that the atom, which in its movement originally pursued a triangular course, will finally arrive at a movement consisting of three spirals arranged in a triangle. "Each spiral movement will be executed under the conditions governing the A to B segment, the the B to C segment, the the C to A segment. Therefore, if you knew what the influences of the A to B segment were, you would know the nature of the primary movement underlaying the spiral which alone appears to the superficial observer. This is a principle underlaying astrology, and this is the reason why the Science of Numbers plays an important part in all practical applications of Cosmic Principles. "The prime movement of an atom is a vortex--nothing else; a mere spinning round a core of motionless vacuum. The atom which has just been described is not a prime atom but an elaborate and complex structure. It is only when the prime atoms combine together that such secondary movements are set up." Err quantum mechanics has nothing on this stuff. If I had time and brain enough I would find a correspondence between the two, the difference would only be in language. Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 12, 2005 8:49:18 GMT -5
Within the mighty Ring-Pass-Not there are smaller ring-pass-not's one can set up for oneself as one lives along daily, as for instance when deciding to stop reading in a book. Come to think of it, it may not be voluntary but a necessity, this stoping to read in a certain book I mean, because the "law of catching up" comes into play.
A few more things from the "Cosmic Doctrine" by Dion Fortune, hard to put down.
Weight esoterically
When atoms, which arise "as vortices in the angles of the Rays, "remain upon the first Cosmic Planes (there are seven) wherin they originated - in their simple form. When, however they form alliances among themselves and become composite, their weight, metaphorically speaking, that is to say their susceptibility to influences, is increased, and susceptibility to influence is all that weight is esoterically. That fact forms the basis of limitation and flight through space. Cut off your susceptibility to influence and you can move freely."
Beautiful! Free people don't belong to clubs or organizations, erect a ring-pass-not around themselves which repells influences coming from all sides. Of course, some influences are so powerful that they do break through the ring and one is never completely free of societal influence.
This song by Jerry Garcia is playing in my head, though the words may not all be correct:
"If you go down to the town by the river down there, where the people just think that they're free, remember the peace that you had on the mountain, come back to the love that you had here with me. And take a last fleeting look at the last lonely eagle, he's soaring the lakes of the land, take a last lonely look at the last flying eagle, you know that we never will land."
Dead Head Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 13, 2005 8:30:23 GMT -5
The Philosopher continues:
"When the atoms become composite, centrifugal forces drive them outward and, finding the path of the flowing Rays, they proceed by these as being the lines of least resistance. When they reach the next circles they remain there, having found the level of gravity."
Gurdjieff's "Law of Falling", which Saint Venoma formulated thus:
"Everything existing in the World falls to the bottom. And the bottom for any part of the Universe is its nearest 'stability', and this said 'stability' is the place or the point upon which all the lines of force arriving from all directions converge."
Max Plank's photons also select the "curve" which takes "them most quickly to their goal", and since atoms are the "children" of the photon or light, they do as their parent, and since we are the children of atoms, we plan the most efficient way to our goal, a temporary stability.
When the composite atoms of the Philosopher have found "the place or point" of Gurdjieff's 'stability', some of them "form additional associations and are again swung out by the path of a Ray. Therefore, you will see that it is only when the extremely elaborate atoms of the Seventh Circle form alliances that they start back up the spiral to the Central Sun." (Re-enter the cause)
The Day and Night of Brahma
When the Ring-Cosmos is in its positive phase it is day time, when the Ring-Chaos is in its positive phase it is night time.
"You have heard how these atoms in their journeiyng progress up and down the Rays, for they are too highly evolved, too composite to be allowed to remain upon any plane. When an atom, however, has completed the circuit of the Rays and seeks to start out again, it finds it's place taken by atoms of later development. It cannot enter the stream for it is full; it must therefore remain in the Central Stillness. No atom goes twice round the circuit, and those atoms which have come home (to) rest from their pilgrimage; and when the last atom has come home the whole creation sinks to sleep, and the Cosmic Tides set inwards as the Ring-Cosmos swings to its negative phase."
Hence Mr. Hall says: "Evolution is the pilgrimage of spirit through matter."
As to "no atom goes twice round the circuit", the Ancient Egyptians: "None that has departed can return." Nature never repeats herself exactly.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 18, 2005 8:27:29 GMT -5
Reincarnation of atoms and people When the Ring-Cosmos is in its negative phase, "the Rays flow and return and the Circles spin on their path, but the atoms stir not, though each within itself contains an infinitude of balanced movement." Relatively speaking, when we are in our negative state, physical death or the "Central Stillness" we stir not, but we have taken with us all impressions and experiences of a given life-time which we contemplate, or as Fern puts it, from the quantity of experience we distil a qualitative understanding, extract the essence which we bring with us to the next life. They also say that this essence quality of all our life-times is our identity pattern--our Immortal Soul or "being essence" which we have created for ourselves. Essence has no substance or mass, therefore no friction so it persists. Mr. Hall: "The soul is a magnificent reward for right effort", and the Grateful Dead say: " . . . you got only you to blame 'cause mama tried." The Book of coming forth by Day: "I come forth from unformed matter; "I have knit myself together; "I am the maker of my name." When "the first phase of atomic evolution has concluded with all its atoms evolved to their utmost complexity, (each human being, therefore humanity entire can only evolve to a certain consciousness in a given cycle) they withdraw from the outer circles and cluster(ed) around the Central Sun." Reminds me of the older, more brilliant stars causing the "cosmic halo" around the "cosmic bulge", whereas, astronomers say, younger stars are born in the outer arms of our spiral galaxy, the outer circle also being the "pro-nous of the temple" where learning begins, and the hierarchy in everything. When "the Ring-Chaos has its turn and it oversets the balance which has been achieved, and the most composite atoms feel first the centrifugal forces urging them, and yet again seek to come forth; so the great units come out once more down the rays, but they proceed now not through empty space, for each Circle is populated by atoms of a different degree of complexity, whose specific gravity holds them at that distance from the Central Stillness. "These composite organisms, draw them about themselves by their force of their whirling revolution, and thus, as they progress outward, each becomes surrounded by a spere of the matter of each plane which it carries with it." Just like we carry a little bit of every person we meet with us, what appeals to us we make our own, what doesn't, appeals to somebody else so nothing gets lost until it is transmuted and re-deemed, and so we're bound to each other. Arghhhhh a mess we have gotten ourselves into. Have a day anyway Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 23, 2005 10:06:08 GMT -5
For about a week now I have been wanting to select a few more things from Dion's Cosmic Doctrine as a cut-off point, but the world teacher has so many great things to say in relatively simple terms. The following is out of context.
Form and Archetypes
"Remember now that movement is the basis of all things. Abstract movements which are opposed lock up force and render it static, fixed. It is these locked-up forces which become 'form'. A form is simply force which is not free to move", confirming Fern's 'form is disciplined force'.
"Any series of changes which are completely compensatory settle down into a cycle of action and reaction.
"As soon as such a cycle is established it cannot change its mode of motion, and therefore a force is locked up, not in a motionless point, but in a spinning ring. The points are units, the rings are organisms."
This force not locked up in a motioneless point but in a spinning ring I imagine as the atom being the point and the spinning ring its nature of a wave, because all particles are complex energy patterns or whirling energy in one place, and their vorticular, cyclic motion holds events in place for us to look at, so to speak, and space is an event. Science too has only theories why a particle behaves like a wave and vis-a-vis, or what it does when not observed. Maybe it does, unseen, its part in keeping the universe balanced/stable. What else could it be interested in?
"Either a unit or a ring, when once established, can move as a whole, and when this movement of an object takes place there are two factors present--the object which moves, and the movement it makes.
"The movement, apart from the object, is of the same nature as the movement which gives rise to the object."
This is quantum mechanics too because wherever the scientists expects a particle to be, there it appears.
"When you got an unco-ordinated movement, such as the tangential movement (the angles produced by the intersectiong of the Circles and Rays "introducing new factors into the Cosmos") of the atoms before they are co-ordinated, there is no permanency of rhythm, and therefor no form is created. But as soon as compensatory co-ordination is established, forms of abstract movements are built.
"This principle applies to many considerations, and is therefore elaborated here in order that it may be available for future reference, and that when the abstract archetypes of anything are referred to, you will know that it is the replica of a rhythm impacted on another plane as a vibration which is referred to. This is the key to memory.
"Now remember that a repetition of circular movements gives rise to a rhythm and that a vibration is simply the impacting of a rhythm of one plane upon the substance of another. The Logoidal rhythms, therefore, set the traveling atoms of the universe that experience their influence vibrating to the same rhythm."
This is how dimensions "stay in touch", and also co-responds to higher demensions of science influencing the spatial dimensions.
"Before proceeding further with the study of evolution of the Divine Sparks, we will refer to the evolution of the archetypes of the globes or satellites whose origin has been described.
"The unifying of the Divine Sparks into a group consciousness gave rise, as aforesaid, to the organization of their attendant atoms into the corresponding geometrical form. After the dispersal of the atoms the archetypal form remains, according to the law above described.
Cheers
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 28, 2005 11:26:11 GMT -5
Chosen at random
"The Lords of Mind", says the world teacher, "appertain to the Ring-Pass-Not and to the Element of Air. Individualism can reach a certain limit only and then is turned back on to a higher arc of collectivism. The limits of the human mind are the safeguard of the human race."
Beautiful, simple, and common sense. I have heard it many times expressed: it's a good thing we have no knowledge of methods that give power because we would have destroyed our race long time ago. On the other hand, i have heard: why keep things secret, why not tell us what it means and what it is? Can anyone imagin the abuse of power?
". . . in order that the (self-conscious) Logos may establish objective consciousness, the need of an object of which it can be conscious. The Logos, therefore, projects Its concept of Itself and becomes conscious of that."
Many steps happen and much later
"Now it is ever the aim of 'will' to function unconditioned, just as it is ever the tendency of 'form' to condition the unmanifest; and the 'will-to-live' of the Logos, always entering upon the conditioned form, which, as it were, it pushes ahead of itself down the planes, is 'irked' by form; but in the later phases of the Logoidal life unconditioned will is impossible, all action being determined by pre-existing conditions, and the will-to-live of the Logos, which is the life of the manifest universe, has to submit to conditions and be bound in form. Hence the 'warfare between spirit and flesh'.
"The will-to-live of the Logos, then, expresses itself through succeeding phases of form until the densest phase is reached. It can no further project the conditioning vihicle of its manifestation, and it strives to free itself from the bondage of form and continue onwards--to employ a metaphor of space--towards those areas of the ether which have not been circumscribed and conditioned by the primal Logoidal Will.
"For it is the endeavour of conditioned life to become unconditioned which forms the prime urge--which projects it towards outer space.
"Secondly there is the natural tendency towards equilibrium, and of the forces under high pressure within a manifest universe to diffuse themselves into the comparative vacuum of outer space."
The reflecting ether
"Thirdly, there is the picture of the Penumbra--all those moulds which are marred in the making--all those evolutionary concepts which fail in their realization--all misplaced forces and souls that have failed in their task, being rejected by their Individualities--all that in fact which it is desired to reject the Logoidal consciousness and which having not been disintergrated against the innet shell of the Ring-Pass-Not remains as an image in the reflecting ether of space upon what may be figuratively termed the outer surface of the Ring-Pass-Not (immediately between that and the Ring-Chaos of the universe), and there may be descried."
The gods that haven't even been born yet, of the Grateful Dead, or the "infinite amount of energy in every spot of nothing", which "doesn't present itself, not because it can't" but "BECAUSE it is held at bay" our philosopher describes:
"Any consciousness, then, which ventures to the nether side of matter will discern across the great gulf, which is the Ring-Pass-Not of the universe, the reflected images of all falsified hopes and obortive attempts at manifestation--and these, as it were craving for the force which should bring them into manifestation, call across the gulf to whatever elements are akin to them in that which presents itself at the barrier, and so it is that all evolving force, whether in the universe or in the individual, having penetrated to fundamentals, looks across the great gulf fixed by Cosmic law and sees the simulacra of its hopeless dreams promising fulfilment, and it is tempted to continue forward on that path of outgoing upon which the divine momentum projected it, and, by means of the further momentum acquired by its own motion, to leap that gulf into the freedom of Outer Space where there is no law, and men are as gods.
"For when a unit of consciousness is freed from a manifest universe by transending law (law being consummated in a perfect obedience), it becomes the nucleating centre of a new Logoidal sun; this is the mystery of Godhead. But when a unit of consciousness that has not fulfilled the law escapes it is an unconditioned will; this is the mystery of evil (positive evil), personified as devil. This Temptation of the Nadir comes to all in the course of evolution.
"From the Divine upon the outgoing arc life has to penetrate into the fundamentals; and having touched the fundamentals, having attained the summit of its powers, it has to reject the temptation of the desire-image reflected from Outer Space, and retrace its steps in humility back to the source of its life; winning the realization that freedom is attained not by escape from limitations and conditions but by adjusting the balance to a perfect equilibrium."
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 29, 2005 8:55:18 GMT -5
We evolve with our planet not on it
"When the next swarm (of Divine Sparks) comes to this phase they find that their evolution has to take place in relation to the Planetary Being, which is Lord of that sphere because it is the dominating influence thereon. They will find, therefore, ready-made the conditions which their predesessors had to evolve, and they will start therefrom upon their own evolution."
Just like children taking over their parents estate.
"Each one, being equipped with the shell (Gurdjieff's planetary body) of the matter of that plane, will, from this basis, proceed to gather about it a shell of the matter of the next plane. (Gurdjieff's higher being bodies) For remember, that allthough in the Cosmos the planes are extended in space--being based upon movement--in a universe the atoms of the planes are not extended in space, being the product of an image held in consciousness, but are differentiated in type."
The atoms of the universe "being the product of an image held in consciousness" goes nicely with the vibratory pattern of quantum entities holding events in place.
"It will thus be seen that the Divine Sparks do not have to change their place in space in order to gather atoms of another type about them (because atoms of all types are everywhere) but they merely have to change their mode of motion in order to produce a type of movement in which the atoms of another plane can take part. When ever the coordination of movements takes place which changes a static unit into a spinning ring of cyclic rhythm, such a change takes place, and a cyclic rhythm always gatheres about it atoms of the plane below its own, because its movement approximates to theirs."
The more motivated set the static, whose movement has to approximates their spinning or the latter would not be interested in spinning along, in motion. This brings me to the next paragraph which I saved the best for last, and which I marked at some time: beautiful, and, Adepts, Brotherhood.
"A traveling atom, having passed through all the phases of Cosmic evolution up to that of which its production is the crown and completion, makes a final journey to the Central Stillness. Then, by the overbalancing of the equipoise, it issues forth, but with this difference--it has itself become owing to its development a centre of attraction. Thereby it draws to itself a certain number of the atoms of each plane through which it passes until it arrives at the Cosmic belt which is decreed as its habitation by its own specific gravity in relation to the centrifugal forces of the Cosmic swirlings. There will be, then, in this new organization thus formed , a central nucleus consisting of the travelling atom. This central nucleus will have implicit in it the modes of reaction to which it became habituated during its experience of the phases of Cosmic evolution."
A fellow traveler
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Post by Charlotte on May 4, 2005 10:30:52 GMT -5
Because the law of catching up cannot be bypassed, I encountered the Ring-Pass-Not with the Cosmic Doctrine. I missed my friend Harharkh the Raven anyway.
Gornahoor, or Mr. Harharkh, the essence friend of Beelzebub, was "at one time considered everywhere among three-brained beings as a 'great scientist,' and "though he still continues to exist" is "now a 'has-been' thanks to his own result" or "his own son."
Does Gurdjieff mean progressive learning, and what is considered a great discovery at one time becomes old hat in due time, and if Harharkh embodies the creative genius, were we at one time great but have devolved to where we are now thanks to our peculiar psyche?
And this "enormous workshop" of his, which, when he presses some button, or the nickel drops, the"whole interior is filled with the same blinding light" as Beelzebub has experienced when he was outside this workshop. If the same blinding light is experienced inside and outside the workshop it must be a flash of recognition because the philosopher in the Cosmic Doctrine tells this truth:
"Each grade of Initiation can be conceived of as a blinding flash of light, and by means of this flash the image of the sub-plane to which it belongs is photographed on the sub-conscious, whence consciousness reads it at its leisure."
The enormous workshop is the sub-and unconscious, because when Harharkh wants to demonstrate something he must always obtain "the necessary materials from the outside" which his pupils give him "by means of appliances which (he) has prearranged." This gets into neuro-science, is very agreeable with the extraordinary and mysterious power of our brain to weave scenes via sense perception or "materials from the outside."
The Egyptian wisdom has Neith as weaver of the world presiding over this activity.
Cheers Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on May 10, 2005 9:16:15 GMT -5
The enormous workshop of Harharkh the Raven = the sub-and unconscious?
Some time ago on Ma'at, Morph linked to an article in which he comments on "the esoteric implication of the painting by Teniers, of the Saints Paul and Anthony in Egypt, which is seen by some as a counterpart to the Poussin 'Et in Arcadia'.
"Both Paul and Anthony are Saints of the Egyptian coptic church which retained the spoken language of Pharaonic Egypt and many of its spiritual aspects
"St Anthony as representing the lowest serpentine intuition was patron of all dreams and weird experiances as he entered into the deep dark recesses of his cave/mind. and was much portrayed by artists and fantasists, the lowly pig is his symbol..Paul is thus the opposite ever going toward the light and rationalisation. Both of them were fed by a blackbird which represents intuition coming from the deep dark regions of the psyche, but both of them must eventually be seen as united."
They were fed "unleavened bread", intuition which "flies" up from the unconscious or Harharkh's enormous workshop, and has to be reasoned out.
Furthermore, Morph writes:
"St Anthony is thus concerned with the hidden things of the tomb, of the skull, of the serpent etc...upper Egypt was 'the red land', whilst Paul was of 'white' lower Egypt (it is the black/Egypt bird that co-joins the two). In the painting Paul directs Anthony from darkness toward the light, they are opposite polarities, the drive toward the darkness of the subjective, contrasted with the objective light."
This objective light might be the blinding light outside the workshop of the Raven Harharkh, whereas the blinding light inside the workshop brain/mind can be St. Paul the rational, or "a being of Reason", taking a candle into the darkness and lighting it up.
According to the unnamed world teacher of Dion Fortune's Cosmic Doctrine: "Reason in the mortal man corresponds to illumined understanding in the spiritual man."
Gurdjieff calls the beings responsible for world-maintenance "beings of Reason".
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on May 11, 2005 8:37:49 GMT -5
A black bird feeds St. Paul and St. Anthony unleavened or unfermented bread, which is the bread eaten when an individual, a nation, or humanity experiences a "Passover."
The black raven which leaves Noah's boat gives way to the white dove, a passover from an old to a new age.
The "form" of "being-bird ravens" breed, according to Gurdjieff, on almost all planets of our solar system and the Universe. They ravens from Saturn talk similiar to us, however their utterances are the most beautiful to be heard. With "all their Being they sing in a minor key", tell about the minor mysteries, the same Herodotus has the Egyptian Sages chirping like birds, and on the winged words of the inspired Poets one flies to Parnassus.
As I suspected, these Singers of beautiful words, or Thruths, are the "white" Initiates and teachers on planets of our great Universe, also because they "exist strictly according to the ninth commandment of our CREATOR, namely: 'Do unto another's as you would do unto your own." This is not the "ninth" but the new commandment.
But why are the three-brained being-ravens from Saturn special?
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on May 12, 2005 8:21:55 GMT -5
Beelzebub tells Hassein that from the lower part of Harharkh's enormous workshop rose a sort of a small, transparent box containing "certain minerals, metalloids, metals, and various gases in liquid and solid states."
By "complicated manipulation he took out from the box some of what is called 'red copper", which "metal is a definite planetary crystallization and is one of the desities required for the stability" of "the Common-system-harmonious movement" of the planets. This "red-copper" metal "is a formation from preceding processes of the action" of the three parts of the "Unique-Active-Element".
" . . . the radiations of these metalloids and metals possess properties almost similar to the properties of Okidanokh itself or of one or another of its active parts."
"When the said masses of different desities that have thus arisen in planets under normal surrounding conditions radiate from their common presences the vibration required for the said World-law of Reciprocal-feeding-of everything-existing, then, among these vibrations of various properties there is established, owing to the fundamental World-law "Troemedekhfe", a reciprocally acting contact.
"And the result of this contact is the chief factor in the gradual change of the various densities in planets.
"MY observations over many years have almost fully convinced me that it is owing only to the said contact and its results that there is actualized the "Stability-of-harmonious-equilibrium-of-planets."
The three latter paragraphs are easy to understand, though I never thought so precise of "vibrations" of different properties from masses of different densities of planets contacting and thereby actualizing the stable and harmonious movement of the planets.
Beautiful really
Charlotte
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Post by daz407 on May 12, 2005 13:44:58 GMT -5
Hi Charlotte
I've been following your posts (Gurdjieff) I'm still tryring to get my 'head around' from where you are coming from?
Are you agreeing in your writings/quotes to the hypothesises of EvD?
Are the words you write support the ancient astronaut theories? I'm (hope not) not being pedantic but just want to know the way you 'swing'
Love.........Daz
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