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Post by BERNHARD on May 6, 2004 10:06:15 GMT -5
Dear CHARLOTTE .. Liebe LOTTE : don't worry about it ! keep on posting if you have enough time and enough lust to do this ! and perhaps some day DON and the other members here will again share our conversions ! BIS BALD und ALLES LIEBE ! -- Bernie --
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Post by BERNHARD on May 14, 2004 10:30:16 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, --- there is too much peace and silence here, that's why i do not want to disturb this atmosphere of self-reflecting meditation for the next days, hoping for the "resurrection" of master Don and the other members ! i now wish you a nice and inspiring weekend ! greetings from bavaria: Bernie
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Post by coggas on Jun 2, 2004 10:45:29 GMT -5
Hi Team,
Too much silence, then let's Rock On...
P101 O.K. I will syncronize books.
I'm still here.
Cogga's.
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Post by coggas on Jun 2, 2004 10:48:40 GMT -5
BTW Bernie,
Keep the 'lust' out of this. Unless you lust for Truth.
C.
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 7, 2004 10:39:09 GMT -5
Glad you're still here Cogga's. It is quite around here, and though I wish for some input at times, the silence doesn'r curtail my Lust=enthusiasm because in writing things out I learn better myself, which is what chapter 13 is about.
I have been doing Partkdolg-duty, and the juncture I arrived at in the Atlantis thread actually made me pick up Beelzebub again and I found that Chapter 13 was just where I needed to go. It's the darndest thing the way this happens. It may not be all the way I see it at the moment, nevertheless, what I gained clearly confirmed for the first time the foresight and wise words of the highly esteemed Mullah Nassr Eddin: 'just roses, roses.'
Chapter 13
Why in Man's Reason Fantasy May Be Perceived as Reality
Hassein needs to know why we take the 'ephemeral' for the Real, and Beelzebub tells him that it wasn't always so, but only in later periods did our psyche aquire this peculiarity, because rather than coming to an understanding solely by our own sane deliberation, we find it easier and less time consuming to "believe everything anybody says."
Reminds me of Charlotte the spider saying to Wilbur: "People believe anything they see in print."
In the chapter "The Mental and Psychic development of the Lemurians", Mr. Cervé writes that they were free from the contaminating influence of false conceptions and ideas, and opinions rehashed over and over in schools, "they had no established opinions or orthodox doctines of life prescribed for them by any special group of scientists and educators, for all their knowledge was obtained through the individual observance of Nature at work."
Beelzebub tells Hassein that a hearer is quite convinced that a thing is so when enough people repeat it, and this certain writer comes in again, and I still don't know who he is, "a very great psychologist (who) has an incomparable knowledge of the psyche of us three-brained beings", most of us are convinced at the present time.
But, says Beelzebub to his grandson, when he was on our planet for the last time and heard of the writer he went to see him on an unrelated matter, and found him "not only like all the other contemporay writers, extreemly limited, and as our dear Mullah Nassr Eddin would say: 'able to see no further than his nose,' but as regards any knowledge of the real psyche of the beings of his planet in real conditions, he may savely even be called 'totally illiterate.'
Because "the realizaton of being Partkdolg-duty is absent, we don't form our own convictions by our own logical deliberations, which would be proper to us, "only those are crystallized which depend exclusively only upon what others say about the given question." Alone by thinking things through and waiting for the leap to comprehenshion "enables a being to become aware of genuine reality." Some perfection or other seen in this writer "was not there at all."
This strange trait of the general psyche of being satisfied with what others say, became rooted in us a long time ago, we "no longer strive at all to know anything cognizable by (our) own active deliberations alone."
There are several reasons I can think of why this is so, 1, because we are overburdened with daily concerns; 2, because we have been brainwashed with what is important in the life we live only once; 3, Because when one finds a truth and is so exited that one simply has to tell it, it is immediately conflicted, rediculed as the fancy of an overheated psyche because no person of importance or expert on the subject has ever said such a thing, so who are you to know anything, and finally one just stands there looking at the pearl of great price ground into the dirt by dirty combat boots.
But inwardly it still comes up roses again.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 8, 2004 9:22:48 GMT -5
Chapter 13 page 104
Beelzebub says that neither the organ Kundabuffer which our ancestors had, nor its consequences which were crystallized in them due "to a mistake on the part of a certain Sacred Individuals", and were passed from generation to generation by heredity, are to blame that we don't strive "to know anything cognizable by (our) own active deliberation alone."
Our ancestors are to blame because "of the abnormal conditions of external ordinary being-existence which they themselves have gradually established and which have gradually formed in their common presents just what has now become their inner 'Evil-God,' called 'Self-Calming.' Concerning this Beelzebub will explain more later.
I don't blame our ancestors for adapting to external conditions because it must have been exeedingly difficult to live or deal with the consequences of an active organ Kundabuffer. Maybe then, just as now, men, in whom power consciousness is emphasized, abused it too much and the result, then and now is war. Even today, some individuals cannot control this power, are controlled by it, and use it in a perverted way, whereas others do contol it and benefit others, therefore mankind. Some call it black and white magic, but advises Beelzebub one should be diplomatic 'With what may the Devil not joke?'---
Beelzebub strongly advises Hassein and us to be careful of what we say and not insult other three-brained beings, especially the "power possessing beings" of a community or the world community, but I was not talking about them in the above paragraph, because if they find out they will 'lay you by the heels.'
"And in the present case there is no harm in recalling again one of the wise sentences of our dear Mullah Nassr Eddin, who says:
"Struth! What might not happen in this world. A flea might swallow an elephant.' "
St. Germain said something to the effect that with house-wifes, "elevated" to the status of home-makers in America, he will save the world, so actually "home-makers" is good. And a farmer from Phoenix, Arizona.
A ship's servant interrupted Beelzebub by handing him "an 'etherogram' in his name", lol, to which content he "listened." Because Hassein had taken such a fancy to us, he couldn't wait for the ship's servant to leave to hear more of what his "Dear Grandfather", who looked "again with a special smile" and "made a very strong gesture with his head," had to tell about us three-brained beings on this interesting planet. I can't either.
"The proper study of man is mankind." M.P. Hall
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 9, 2004 10:07:18 GMT -5
Beelzebub "listened" to the 'etherogram', a measure of the ether. Hearing is omniscient, when one listenes "into" the air or ether, one can "sense" things one cannot see. In their days, the Lemurians and Atlantians, I learned in occult anatomy, could still "read" in the ether or the etheric regions of the physical world. But Beelzebub saw the 'arising' of the three-brained beings, so he saw also the state of the earlier to be human form as we know it, the time of "The Children of the Mist" of Wagner, the time we lived in a fiery mist, the earth gradually cooling. As I said before, this is kept unwittingly alive in Germany in the following manner: when somebody wants to pull a fast one on somebody else, the latter says "you mustn't think that I came swimming along in the burning soup yesterday." For Bernhard -- "moinst Du das i erst gestern auf da Brennsuppn dahergwumma bi?"
So we evolved "with" the earth, not on it after it cooled and was suitable for human habitation. As the earth solidified so did the human body, and this process is recorded in the development of the embryo, described phase by phase in the Koran. In the Bible it is the garden of Eden time, but surely God didn't literally pick up some dirt from the ground and molded man and breathed life into him to become a living soul. The embryo becomes a living soul 18 to 21 days after conception with the "quickening" caused by the divine spark or ego entering the mothers womb.
It is not hard to see why Man is the measure and measurer of all things, and all things are measured out in him. I think I said most of this before, sorry, but I have to reinforce it to my own understanding.
Chapter 14 page 106
The Beginnings of Perspectives Promising Nothing Very Cheerful
Beelzebub informs Hassein that the three-brained beings on our planet "also had in the beginning presences similar to those possessed in general by all what are called 'Keschapmartnian' three-centered beings arising on all the corresponding planets of the whole of our great Universe; and they also had the same, as it is called, 'duration of existence' as all the other three-brained beings." I wish G would make his weird words more discernable.
I find it very difficult to put an entire paragraph of G into my own words because I loose the precision with which he speaks. I'm not sure if by "all the corresponding planets" he means our 7 planet chain, only one visible, because he says "of the whole of our great Universe."
"All the various changes in their presences began for the most part after the second misfortune occurred to this planet, during which misfortune the chief continent of that ill-fated planet, then existing under the name of 'Atlantis' entered with in that planet." This must be the time Atlantis rose from the ocean.
"And from that time on, as little by little they created for themselves all sorts of conditions of external being-existence thanks to which the quality of their radiations went steadily from bad to worse. Great Nature was compelled gradually to transform their common presences by means of various compromises and changes, in order to regulate the quality of the vibrations which they radiated and which were required chiefly for the preservation of the well-being of the former parts of that planet."
Basically, G confirms here our evolving with the planet, Great Nature having having to compromise and transform our common presences because our vibrations would have destroyed all that was built up before, and with it our purpose for existence.
Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Jun 9, 2004 10:45:50 GMT -5
Hi Coggas, hmmm, i do not know, if i can interprete your reply in the correct context intended by you, but there is so much stuff we are touching right now, that's very difficult for me to concentrate on few (condensed) answers. actually i have not very much time for sufficient deepgoing contributions. this makes me a liitle bit sad, because i respect all the efforts, passion and empathy of Charlotte, and others as well ! fine, that You are back, cause we do need more contributors, to share the load of our discussion on some more shoulders ! -- greetings: Bernie
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Post by BERNHARD on Jun 9, 2004 11:10:40 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, --- a new theory on the location of Atlantis, based upon some recent research and images taken by satellite, causes nw interest on this subject. i waited for a english written weblink, and here ist is: dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20040607/atlantis.html ---- this only for completeness on this subject. Coggas made a comment some days ago, referring to Lust ! to find the truth and wisdom behind this incrediblle fantastic creation includes the wonder of the existence of human beings as well. and a part of our human behavior is lust ! i do not want to discuss the colors of lust, and the risks we are confrontated if our activities are mainly conrolled by the factor of lust, but it's one of the flowers of the human bouqet of our complexity, that we should not brandmark as a principally evil or negative property. must i act like a monk in a totally isolation, buried in a small cold chamber of a monastery, to achieve wisdom and a kind of immortality !? i am not sure, bt i have no problems to accept it if other persons prefer to walk this way ! but it's not my way ! i would like to balance all of my human capablities, trying to educate myself, and to reduce and avoid all negative things i am basically able to do ! i intzend to find my humble position embedded in a fantastic world, trying to honestly fullfil the job i have to do during the decades i am living as a visitor on this planet. ------- part-1 finished ! - Bernie -
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Post by coggas on Jun 9, 2004 22:03:40 GMT -5
Hi Bernie, I left off the Cheers, C.
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 10, 2004 9:27:33 GMT -5
Nice post Bernie, I am so with you in this view, and the word Lust in the context of your post meant enthusiasm, as I mentioned in case Cogga's doesn't speak German. To get deep into a subject we would have to sit together under an old tree with a good bottle of wine, I do pretty good with whisky too, and have an actual philosophical enquiry, which with the Greeks lasted for days, month, and years. We're not doing so bad, persuing mainly a few subjects at lenght. I saw the satellite photos, but no rings others saw. I think Plato was talking about the ages when he wrote about metals. Hopefully we'll find the real Atlantis when we're finished with Beelzebub, only 1131 pages to go or Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Jun 11, 2004 6:18:12 GMT -5
Hi COGGAS, thanks ! fine to read Your reply today morning ! i just was about to fall into a sudden deep depression, feeling like a totally Lust-fixated and Drug-depending "second-hand" amateur-philosopher ! ;D -- greetings: Bernie
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Post by BERNHARD on Jun 11, 2004 8:17:50 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, Atlantis, MU, Lemuria and other sunken HIGH-civilizations are waiting for us since thousands of years, so we can tolerate a further delay of some days and weeks. the newly discovery in spain does not convince me so much of being the true old city of Atlantis, we commonly are speaking of. but on the other hand, that Atlantis, mentioned by Plato, may have been a more mediteranean located culture, and not one of ancient big "global playing" mystic civilizations like MU ( Lemuria ? ) and others !?? -- could be, that Homer and later PLato have been writing and talking according to old more local oriented sources ( written in Linear-A/B ?), which had been lost or destroyed a short time later ! AND ( i still mentioned it) : one of these old sources, supposed to be from around 1300 BCE (!) , and written in linear-b, not easily to translate, but talking of events, similar to those of the TROYan war (!!), or exactly this war itself ?, -- had recently been discovered at THEBES (Greece !). the examination and translation ( as far as possible with the decipheRing-knowledge of today ) is still under process ! ------- dear lotte, therefore is time enough to furtherly concentrate on your GUARDJIEFF-topic, to complete you Beelzebub-contribution ! - have to relaunch my work now ! -- ciao: Bernie --> till next monday ! -- nice weekend to All -- hope we see Don B. back on this (His) Forum !! --
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 11, 2004 9:33:29 GMT -5
Repeating the second paragraph on page 106.
"All the various changes in their ( the three-brained beings on all corresponding planets of the universe) presences began for the most part after the second misfortune occurred to this planet, during which misfortune the chief continent of that ill-fated planet, then existing under the name 'Atlantis' entered within that planet."
In the "Secred Doctrine II, page 778, Madam Blavatsky gives an extract from a lecture by W. Pengelly, F.R.S., F.G.S.
"Was there, as some have believed, an Atlantis -- a continent or Archipelago of large islands occupying the area of the North Atlantic? There is, perhaps, nothing unphilosophical in the hypothesis. For since, as geologists state, ' the Alps have aquired 4,000 and even in some places more than 10,000 feet of their present altitude since the commencement of the Eocene epoch' (Lyell's Principles 2nd Ed. p. 256.)--a post - Miocene depression might have carried the hypothetical Atlantis into almost abysmal depths."
On the same page the lady quotes a passage from a master in "Esoteric Buddhism"
"The sinking of the Atlantis (the group of continents and islands) began during the Eocene period . . . . and it culminated in the Miocene, the first in the final disappearance of the largest, an event coincident with the elevation of the Alps, and second in the sinking of the last and fair islands mentioned by Plato."
She then says in a footnote that geologists differ in their estimation in assigning "an approximate date for the most recent epoch at which our Northern Hemisphere was covered with glaciers" from 70,000 to 100,000 to 200,000 to a million being barely enough. "Clearly, then,if modern Science is unable to estimate the date of so comparatively recent an era as the Glacial Epoch, it can hardly impeach the Esoteric Chronology of Race-Periods and Geological Ages."
A few more parts to our puzzle from the Secret Doctrine:
"The polar lands unite and brake off from each other into islands and peninsulas, yet remain ever the same. Therefore northern Asia is called the "eternal or perpetual land," and the Antarctic the "ever living" and "the concealed "; while the Mediterranean, Atlantic, Pacific and other regions disappear and reappear in turn, into and above the great waters."
Of mythological symbolism, she writes:
"Such mythological symbolism as are found in all the esoteric creeds, are so many landmarks of prehistoric truths. The sunny, happy land, the primitive cradle of the earliest human races, has become several times since then hyperborian and Saturninè; thus showing the Golden Age and reign of Saturn from multiform aspects. It was many-sided in its character indeed--climactically, ethnologically and morally. For, the Third, Lemurian Race must be philosophically divided into the early androgynous and the later by-sexual race; and the climate of its dwelling places and continents into that of an eternal spring and eternal winter, into life and death, purity and impurity."
Saturn eats his children, exept Zeus or Jupiter.
So the androgynous early Lemurian race was pre Eden, or the first creation in Genesis, and I'm thinking back to Beelzebub's beings on the planet Moon who "had very very frail planetary bodies but strong spirits", and were forced to tunnel under "abnormal local climate conditions"; and the second creation eastward in Eden, Adam and Eve, the division of the sexes, the by-sexual race to which we belong. In the seventh and final race, as I understand it, we will be androgynous again, not physically, rather our one visible and six invisible bodies intergrated and spiritualized. This is the journey of spirit through matter, gaining experience, and back home again, take a deeeep breath, look back and be totally blown away: good God on what "along, strange trip it's been." It's even longer than that . . . and some more time.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 12, 2004 9:47:13 GMT -5
Chapter 14 p. 106 Great Nature compromised and transformed the three-brained beings then to regulate the vibrations to preserve "the well-being of the former parts of that planet." Beelzebub doesn't say to preserve the "beings" there, but "parts of the planet", meaning that their and our vibrations preserve or destroy our planet. "For the same reason, Great Nature gradually so increased the number of the beibgs there that at the present time they are now breeding on all the lands formed on that planet." That would mean us, and because of the fundamental traits of our peculiar psyche the horrible "process of the destruction of each other's existence", or what we call war, occurs. This happens on no other planet "in the whole of the Universe." Our exterior planetary bodies, the human form, are "made alike", but as to size and our "other subjective particularities" we are coated just like Beelzebub, Hassein, and their tribe. We are "coated in accordance with the reflection of heredity, with the conditions at the moment of conception and with the other factors that serve in general as the causes for the arising and formation of every being." We differ in color of skin and "comformation of" our hair, "and these latter peculiarities are determined in (our) presences, just as they are everywhere else, by the effects of that part of the plantary surface where the given beings arise and where they are formed until" we become adults and expected to live the responsible life. Besides our "chief peculiarity", making war and "destroy each other's existence", there are "completely crystallized" in our psyche, and have "unfailingly become a part of (our) common presence--regardless of where (we) may arise and exist--functions which exist under the names 'egoism,' 'self-love,' 'vanity,' 'pride,' 'self-conceit,' 'credulity,' suggestibility,' and many other properties quite abnormal and quite unbecoming to the essence of any three-brained beings whatsover." Guilty on all accounts Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 14, 2004 9:36:11 GMT -5
Last night in a dream I stood before a double or wing door. Both had identical, elaborate mechanism to open them. Whilst moving the latches, pins, bolts, and turning the knobs I complained to the lady who had them installed and was standing behind me: "Look at all the steps one has to go through to open these doors, much to complicated, maybe you can have simpler locks put on them." She didn't answer.
Chapter 14 p. 107
Beelzebub says that for us personally, the most dreadful of the above mentioned traits of our peculiar psyche is 'suggestibility,' and that he will specially explain sometime "about this extreemly strange and singular psychic peculiarity." He was more thoughtful than usual and said to Hassein that they have "willy-nilly to talk about many things just to pass the time during the voyage on the ship Karnak" concerning us three-brained beings on earth which so interest Hassein.
Beelzebub "personally visited the the surface of the planet Earth six times in all, and each of these personal visits of mine was brought about by a set of different circumstances." He will relate the events which occurred and to which he was an eye witness, beginning with his first descent, so we can have a clearer understanding.
So far as I understand at the moment, The continents of Lemuria and Atlantis existed simultaneously in the Pacific and Atlantic respectively, Lemuria being older, the west coast of North America from Baja to Puget Sound being a remnant of Lemuria, not Atlantis.
I am reading Beelzebub's Tales and the book "Lemuria" simultaneously, and in the latter is a most interesting chapter entitled
THE SPIRITUALITY OF THE LEMURIANS
by Dr. James W. Ward (Eminent Disciple of Oriental Monastery Schools)
The entire chapter requires reading between the lines, and above and below. Here is part of what Dr. Ward says:
"I, personally, viewed with interest some historical records of the Lemurians, and especially interested was I in the fearless and undaunted adventures of twelve Lemurain Disciples who started out with an airship which looked just a little like our modern blimp. They were old men experienced in flying a ship, also in sailing boats. Their dreams were of exploring other countries or continents. They made some crude maps and some so plain and perfect that we were sure they were maps of Newfoundland and Florida.
These twelve Disciples finally landed in Atlantis where the were received, loved, honored, and obeyed, because the Atlanteans called them the Holy Lemurians."
It makes me think that this airship is the "transspace" ship Karnak and these old men were Beelzebub "with his kinsmen and near attendants." One of the passengers "always near Beelzubub himself" was the conspicuously handsome Hassein, son of his favorite son "Tooloof", Hassein, always eager to know about the three-brained beings he has taken such a fancy to, representing those who pay close attention, needing to know themselves, and Tooloof those who are too aloof. Or maybe they embody successive races, probably both.
And because Beelzebub visited the "surface" of the Earth six times, G could mean the Ages, in which case he knows the future and end as well, since he knows the beginning. The seventh could also be our own understanding, like I think of the six steps of Zoser's Pyramid, the seventh being the view gained.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 15, 2004 9:37:17 GMT -5
Chapter 15 p. 109
The First Descent of Beelzebub upon the Planet Earth
was because one of his tribe became deeply involved in a stupid affair with one of the three-brained being on Earth.
While living on Mars there came to him a number of beings also living on Mars. They told him that "350 Martian years before one of their young kinsmen migrated" to Earth to live here, and that recently "a very disagreeable incident for all of them, his kinsmen on Mars, happened. The young man's kin, existing both on Mars and the Earth, tried to resolve "the unpleasant incident" themselves, but all their efforts and measures they adopted were unsuccsessful, so they went to Beelzebub to seek his wise council. They told him about the incident in detail, and he decided at once to help them settle the unfortunate affair.
Since it was impossible to effectively "settle this difficulty of theirs" from Mars, he took everything necessary which he had at hand, boarded the ship Occasion and flew to Earth.
We are reminded that all the beings of Beelzebub's tribe "were transported to that solar system", on the ship Occasion, that it was left in our solar system for the use of his tribe "for the purpose of interplanetary communication."
"The permanent port of this ship was on the planet Mars; and its supreme direction had been given me from Above." Huh! Though not surprising that G was familiar or traversed the Universe at large.
On Beelzebub's first vist to our planet, the ship Occasion landed on the shores of a continent called Atlantis, which continent "disappeared entirely" from the surface of the Earth during the second catastrophy to our planet.
As mentioned before, according to Madame Blavatsky, the sinking of Atlantis began in the Eocene epoch and the continent disappeared completely in the Miocene epoch, between the two catastrophes about 700,000 years elapsed. Since the Occasion was still able to land on Atlantis, G must be meaning either the Eocene epoch or the span of 700,000 years. Moreover, Beelzebub says that "most" of our ancestors and also "most" beings of his tribe existed only on the planet Earth. The few must have existed elsewhere.
On Atlantis, Beelzebub went straight to a city named 'Samlios' where the troublemaker of his tribe lived.
"The city 'Samlios' was then a very large city, and was the capital of the largest community on the planet Earth."
Samlios sounds Greek, maybe Samos, the birthplace of Pythagoras, "the fair-haired Samien" being the "Capital", his disciples and followers the largest in learning community on Earth.
But the head of the city and community, says Beelzebub "was called King Appolis" with whom "our young, inexperienced countryman had become involved", and "in this city of 'Samlios' itself" Beelzebub "learned all the details of this affair", namely, that his kin "had been on friendly terms with this King Appolis, and was often in his house", but at some time his kin "made a wager" causing a problem so big that Beelzebub himself had to come to Earth to try and solve it. He couldn't do it from Mars.
Now I think that this 'King Appolis' and the city 'Samlios' belong in the greater scheme of things.
Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Jun 15, 2004 10:59:05 GMT -5
Dear CHARLOTTE, actually i am very busy, because i have to install and prepare some new production-runs here on the mainframes. but a short contribution to the dream your mentioned. my interpretation: the double-winged door is the so called "door of wisdom", the wings remain to the HORUS-bird, guarding and protecting this entry ! you try to enter door by a kind of unpatiently and hastily handling on the doors opening-mechanism. but this does not function. you can only enter if you spent a lot of time, enthousiasm and efforts to enter that world of wisdom. but then you will only have to touch the door, saying some friendly words like "hello here i am , please let me in", and it will be opened, and you will hear a warmhearted "welcome dear LOTTE !". the lady behind you, is a figure like the old fine lady FERN, which prefers to ask and answer in a more ZEN-buddhistic way , and does not want to assist you too much, because you had to proceede this way by many brain-stormings, self-training, efforts and results of your very own ! and only this is the real royal way "Königsweg"/via regia" to succeed ---- deep inside you do know this very exactly. and the dream was retelling you that old truth, to strengthen and correct you, to remind you not to fight too fast for at least not real satisfiying solutions. the way for wisdom and happiness is a very rough way, often like stumbling through the labyrinth of our daily life. ok,.., so far my humble analysis. well, now enjoy life ! ciao: Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 16, 2004 9:44:58 GMT -5
Dear CHARLOTTE, actually i am very busy, because i have to install and prepare some new production-runs here on the mainframes. but a short contribution to the dream your mentioned. Glad that so many times you take a moment out of your bussy workday to say a few words, Bernie my interpretation: the double-winged door is the so called "door of wisdom", the wings remain to the HORUS-bird, guarding and protecting this entry ! you try to enter door by a kind of unpatiently and hastily handling on the doors opening-mechanism. but this does not function. you can only enter if you spent a lot of time, enthousiasm and efforts to enter that world of wisdom. but then you will only have to touch the door, saying some friendly words like "hello here i am , please let me in", and it will be opened, and you will hear a warmhearted "welcome dear LOTTE !". the lady behind you, is a figure like the old fine lady FERN, which prefers to ask and answer in a more ZEN-buddhistic way , and does not want to assist you too much, because you had to proceede this way by many brain-stormings, self-training, efforts and results of your very own ! and only this is the real royal way "Königsweg"/via regia" to succeed ---- deep inside you do know this very exactly. and the dream was retelling you that old truth, to strengthen and correct you, to remind you not to fight too fast for at least not real satisfiying solutions. the way for wisdom and happiness is a very rough way, often like stumbling through the labyrinth of our daily life. ok,.., so far my humble analysis. well, now enjoy life ! ciao: Bernie Nice interpretation of my dream and I agree with all you say Reading evenings until the text blurs to grasp what G is saying, I ascribed the dream in the lesser (or closer at hand) to this mental activity, standing before a heavy double door, above and below, trying all the locks every which way I know of to open it. I do get impatient at times for being so slow in understanding, but excuse it with having just started, besides, Beelzebub keeps saying "no hurry, all in good time." The silent women behind me I interpreted as my "wise old self", or as you put it "deep inside you know this very exactly." And yes, Fern is always behind me, I just remembered that she mentioned reading "THE FOURTH WAY" by Ouspensky, which I bought years ago at the behest of my philosophy teacher, and which is laying here beside me, unopened. Shame on me. "His majesty King Cheops spent all his time trying to find the number of secret chambers of the santuary of Thoth, so as to have the same for his own horizon." These words from the Westcar Papyrus are commonly interpreted below, as Khufu wanting to built more chambers into the Great Pyramid. The Sanctuary of Thought You too, enjoy the good life Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 18, 2004 10:15:36 GMT -5
Chapter 15 p. 111 I read to the end of the chapter and am totally stuck. I thought maybe this King Appolis was the sun and his administrators the planets and other heavenly objects, but the maleficent organ Kundabuffer comes in again and the problem is one of "psychosis." So for now I take King Appolis as the sun, or son, or divinity, or evolving ego, in ourselves, and the city of Samlios our body, or maybe the sleeping condition we're in since "the organ Kundabuffer was no longer in the three-brained beings" during the period of Beelzebub's first descent to Earth. However, the "various consequences of the properties" of the organ Kundabuffer "had already begun to be crystallized" in "some", or "a number of the beings there. And one of the consequences was, that "while the organ Kundabuffer itself was still functioning in them, had enabled them very easily and without any 'remorse-of-conscience' not to carry out voluntarily any duties taken upon themselves or given them by a superior. But every duty they fulfilled was fulfilled only from the fear and apprehenshion of 'threats' and menaces' from outside." This consequence was the cause of the whole incident, of his young and inexperienced kin making a wager with King Appolis. The King himself "had been extremely conscientious in respect of the duties he had taken upon himself for the maintenance of the greatness of the community entrusted to him, had spared neither his own labor nor wealth, and at the same time he damanded the same from all the beings of his community." To those of his community, in whom the consequences of the organ Kundabuffer had thoroughly crystallized at that time, King Appolis employed all means necessary to maintain "the greatness of the community entrusted to him." He used varying methods, but was "at the same time so reasonable that even those of his 'subject-beings' in whom the said consequences had already been crystallized could not help respecting him, although they added to his name, of course behind his back, the nickname 'Archcunning.' " That changes the picture again, and since the "wager" was writ on paper, and King Appolis and Beelzebub's young and naive kin signed the agreement "each with his own blood", it makes me think it was a pact with the devil, so to speak, or at least the tyrannical worldly ego. The same as the "illegitimate ruler" of King Arthur's Court, also the Minetaur at the cave of Crete. It's Friday again my dear friend Bernhard, have a restful ans very sunny weekend. Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 20, 2004 10:03:52 GMT -5
Chapter 15 p. 111
Beelzebub says:
"You must first of all know that both the community of which King Appolis was the head and the city of Samlios . . ." THE HEAD must be the city of Samlios, and THE COMMUNITY the spirits in it, or our body ruled by the head. Samlios and the community "were at that period the greatest and richest of all the communities and cities then existing on the Earth."
"For the upkeep of all this wealth and grandeur King Appolis certainly needed both a great deal of what is called 'money' and a great deal of labor from the ordinary beings of that community."
Reminds me of Pharaoh spending the GNP of Egypt, Khufu even sending his daughter to a brothel to make money, and much backbreaking work from his happy subjects, some still have slaves, to construct the labor intensive Pyramids for to have the greatest tomb possible to gaze out of eternally, ecetera . . . Sorry, must keep on debunking such Egyptological nonsense.
Beelzebub is talking about "the strangeness of the psyche" then and now. He says:
"It is necessary to premise just here that at the period of my first descent in person onto this planet, the organ Kundabuffer was no longer in the three-brained beings who interest you."
But it had been functioning in them at the time of Lemuria and Atlanis, so his first descent must have been relatively recent. This gets complicated because G keeps switching back and forth.
"And it was only in some of the three-brained beings there that various consequences of the properties of that for them maleficient organ had already begun to be crystallized."
I'm glad he says "only in some", and that "for them (for the some) maleficient organ . . ." Because the others are said to have used it in a benificent way.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 22, 2004 10:33:24 GMT -5
Orienting myself anew in this world this morning, reading a few more pages in Beelzebub and remembering what went through my mind all day yesterday concerning this tale of his, I'm beginning to get a better grasp of the continents of Lemuria and Atlantis, and the races inhabiting these. Thanks to my erudite chemist teacher, who, as I said before, taught Occult Anatomy extensively, and of which I have almost tons of material here, I even had a few delightful moments yesterday, and feel pretty good right now too.
There is no doubt in my mind that G is writing about ancient, and further back archaic ourstory, and, of course, the development of our psyche. Since the Lemurians and Atlantians existed simultaneously, the "pure" Lemurians of the Third Race, who, according to "The Eminent Disciple of Oriental Monastery Schools" Dr. Ward, "left a map of their travels", and "of the shape of the earth resembling a coconut. The countries they discovered were scetched on the outside, similarly to the present day globe of the world. The Atlantians in looking over the coconut-shaped globe came to the conclusion that the home of the Lemurians was about a thirty-day trip in a sailboat beyond the setting son. To them the sun set just beyond the borderland of Atlantis."
Because our Rosicrucian author says that the Lemurians traveled across land to the Atlantians, the former statement sounds to me like "serpent" or above and below talk, because the head is also coconut shape, and we're dealing with the psyche of the three-brained beings.
Moreover, Dr. Ward writes:
"God endowed man with reason but man lost track of his divinity; then came sickness, pain and death. Lameness and disease came into existence and from this millions were blind, so many so, that thereafter the Atlantians called them the blind race. However, there were many times more in numbers who were physically whole and pure as the angels in heaven.
The records show that the Atlantians knew all about the Lemurians and only referred to them as the blind race because of the great number of blind among them."
". . . the Holy Lemurians who lived in a world with other people, but were not of them. True, they had love and compassion for the blind and diseased, but lived in a different sphere."
Reminds me of Beelzebub's "ravens of the planet Saturn" whose "verbal intercourse is something like ours." Gurdjieff's.
"And as for their relations with others, they--I don't even know how to describe them--can be known only by existing among them and by experiencing them oneself.
"All that can be said is that these bird-beings have hearts exactly like those of the angels nearest to our endless maker and creator."
As far as I can see, the "immortal" Lemurians were those of Horus, and the Atlantians, both of the Third Race; the Atlantians, says Beelzebub "little by little they created for themselves all sorts of conditions of external being-existence thanks to which the quality of their radiation went steadily from bad to worse . . ." those of Seth. They developed physical eyes to see externally and called the Lemurians who "were not of this world", blind. Because of this organ Kundabuffer, sometimes functioning and others not, and some more things to complicated to put into a few sentences. And in any case, nobody is saying save in double talk, so maybe Thoth has to do his magic in each indiviual to open the eye.
These two races are the ancestors of the Ancient Egyptians, above and below, justifying the words concerning Rome and Egypt, related by Madam Blavatsky:
". . . for, while one empire swayed the world by force and arms alone, the other was the last and most perfect representative of a race who had, long before Rome was ever dreamed of, directed the civilization, the learning, and the intelligence of mankind."
Fern having the last word, partly metaphorical: "The son born in the Ark of Noah was the progenitor of the Great Egyptian Civilization, he was the prodigal son come home . . ." The Dark Prince of Egypt! Elightening our world!
A bouquet of 13 red Roses for Francis Bacon, the Divine Poet, "that brilliant mind and soul", who, says our Rosicrucian author only, "made the first researches into the history of Atlantis and Lemuria."
Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Jun 22, 2004 11:47:04 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte ! keep on writing, and do not fall into desperation ! i'll be back tomorrow ! actually very under stress ! much do plan and organize and (finally) to do ! so have a nice day ! hope the others would be more engaged, so that the load of our discussions could be shared on multiple shoulders ! bye and ciao: Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 26, 2004 10:42:53 GMT -5
Repeating Beelzebub's words to Hassein:
"You must first of all know that both the community of which King Appolis was the head and the city of Samlios where he existed were at that period the greatest and richest of all communities and cities then existing on Earth."
B says "was the head and the city of Samlios", not was the head "of" the city of Samlios. The greatest and richest in wisdom community was the Third Race in our descent to the concrete state we're now in, the Fifth Race. Dr. Ward calls the Third Race "the greatest and noblest race that ever lived." But "in truth and in fact they were not all lost and never will be," writes Dr. Ward, "because the continuity of life came to their rescue and saved from them a remnant" of that noble race, the Egyptians, "the last and most perfect representatives . . ." guiding the intelligence of mankind, of Blavatzky.
That the Egyptians are still guiding our intelligence and learning, and civilization, could be seen, if you looked twice, on world-wide TV, broadcasting the world-wide "Millennia Celebration", celebrating the transition from Piscis to Aquarius really, where the main theme was an astronaut and Pharaoh rising on each side of a half circle meeting in the center to become one. Whoever put this part of the show together also received an "etherogram" whether he or she knew it or not.
Keeping in mind that Dr. Ward was an eminent disciple of "Oriental Monastery Schools", as was Gurdjieff, we may have the beginning of the ever elusive "Brotherhood" with the Lemurians. Dr. Ward concludes his article:
"As a matter of proof of this narrative is the reincarnation of one of those twelve Holy Lemurian Desciples who was known in the Lemurian Age as the greatest architect that lived in that time and who has reincarnated many times, and each time for the love of humanity when man needed him most. He was born a perfect and pure soul, lived a spiritualized and perfect life through each incarnation. This Holy Lemurian whose incarnations have proven him one of God's noblest spirits is today doing God's work under divine guidence. He is daily designing and preparing those heavenly mansions and places of abode for all the elect who choose to live the life and become attuned to the "Treshold."
This short notation of the Lemurian race is as true as the sun shines and as perfectly narrated as the divine law that governs the divine plan of the universe."
The Egyptian incarnation that comes to mind is the mysterious architect of King Zoser, whose name means "The most Sacred One", his architect the
"Sunbearer of the King of Egypt, one who is near the head of the King, director of the Great Mansion, royal representative, High Priest of Heliopolis, Imhotep, the carpenter and the sculptor."
And today he is ***** methinks.
Beauteous to be is beauty's joy in being, Yet not with being beauty's duty endeth; Beauty to see is vision's joy in seeing, And beauty's lessons not when joy she lendeth; Nay, rather say since she is doubled over, Within the orbs of every charmed beholder, That to each ravished eye she plays the lover, And gets a thousand twins anew to mold her. Stint not my sight then of thy form's caresses, Whose beauty every other fair excelleth, For barreness wastes worse than worst excesses, And thy sweet bounty but new treasure telleth.
Ravish my eyes, and thus thy beauty's worth, Shall issue at my lips in deathless birth.
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 28, 2004 10:45:36 GMT -5
Chapter 15 p. 112 Beelzebub's young countryman thought the means by which King Appolis, the 'Archcunning', optained from his subjects what was necessary "for the maintenance of the greatness of the community intrusted to him" was unjust, and when he heard "of some new device of King Appolis for getting what was necessary", he became "indignent and restless." When talking with the King once, Beelzebub's naive countryman told the King to his face that in his views the conduct of the King toward his subjects was "unconscionable", but Appolis did not fly into a rage or "pitch him out by the scruff of his neck", as "usually happens on planet Earth when somebody pokes his nose where he has no business", but "discussed the reasons for his 'severity' with the young Martian, and "the result of the whole of their conversation was precisely a 'wager,' that is to say they made an agreement and set it down on paper and each of them signed it with his own blood." The stakes must have been high because King Appolis obligated himself "to employ employ only those measures and means which should be indicated" by the naive countryman of Beelzebub. In turn, he agreed to be responsible if the people of the cummunity failed "to contribute all that which according to costum was required of them", and "pledged himself to procure for the treasury of King Appolis as much as was necessary for the maintenance and further aggrandizement of the capital of the whole community." I can make of Beelzebub's countryman the evolving divine ego, naive, and of King Appolis the wordly ego, a tyrant, who could be persuaded by the former to have a change of heart, because in the next paragraph is stated that a government "exactly to the indications of our young countryman" didn't work out, and "very soon proved to be quite the opposite of of those expected by our simpleton. King Appolis could also be the collective world ego, or "beast" as it is sometimes called, and "simpleton's" people like me, because my philosophy teacher once said: "If you want to get an idea of what you are up against, (the power-possessing beings) read Bertrand Russel, and our very own Don addressed me once: "My dear naive Charlotte . . ." I do see it every day though, and protect myself accordingly. Or, King Appolis could embody huge collective ignorance, the result of mob psychology. Those people subjected to the rule of a kinder and gentler King Appolis, "in whom the said consequences of the properties of the organ Kundabuffer had already been crystallized" stopped contributing to the treasury of the King, and "even began gradually snatching back what they had put in before." "As our young countryman had undertaken to contribute what was needed and, furthermore, had signed his undertaking with his blood---and you know, don't you, what the voluntary undertaking of an obligation, especially when signed with his own blood, means to one of our tribe---he had of course soon to begin making up to the treasury all that was short." He gave all he had, collected all from his nearest and all he could get from "his nearest on the planet Mars", but everything ran dry there also because "the treasury of the city of Samlios demanded more and again more; nor was the end of its needs in sight." Sounds like the over-rational mind, below, which has to put ratio and measure on everything, symbolized by the Minetaur who demands the virgin youths of Athens, or all our mind-born intuitive virgin ideas, ridiculed and demolished immidiately because there is neither textual nor objective evidence for it, nor has any expert in a given field declared such an idea permissable and acceptable. " Oh, Hell!" Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Jun 28, 2004 11:18:38 GMT -5
DEAR CHARLOTTE, i am still busy, but now i can await the upcoming ultimo-june-computer-runs with more relaxation, because we finally succeeded in the most important parts and details of the new planned production races. oh Lotte, be happy, cause we are allowed to discuss on a very exclusive web-forum here ! a fine board, but unfortunately with mostly two active members. so i still wish you a fine californian day, and we meet us tomorrow ! ciao & servus : Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 29, 2004 10:50:58 GMT -5
Glad the stress is letting up Bernie, and this board is good, we can chatter and study. I overslept today. Over the weekend, I went through another box full of lecture material from said teacher, and concerning Atlantis, found maps on ocean currents, the mystery of the European eel migration, continental drift marks, excerpts from "The Secret of Atlantis" by Otto Muck, the mid-atlantic ridge etc., and the final sinking of Poseidonis, ranging between 20,000 to 8000 by various searchers, the mean being 12,875 years. I scribbled on a page: the beginning of the true Atlantian race was on the Ashanti coast. Also maps of Lemuria and types of man, and since we were talking about Native Americans and Tibeteans, cro-magnun man looks very much like them. So get ready for a possible 4 year thread because I found all kinds of good stuff. "The Gurdjieff Teachings - Part II", subtitled "The Transmutation of Spiritual Alchemy and the Food Octaves", which he taught in a long lecture series entitled "Studies in the Hermetic Wisdom", and being a scientist first, "An attempt to reunite Philosophy, Religion and Science." "Atomic and Molecular Organization of World Levels" is what I was looking for a while ago, because he contrasts G's teachings to particle physics. That's the time I got fired up, and knew I had to work my way to a certain understanding of QM sooner or later. As to the evolution of the races, we have the Stanza's of "Dzyan" in "The Secret Doctrine" of Blavatszky, and M.P. Hall's teachings to draw from. You may not think to highly of Madam B, but she wrote all that science knows today, and much more. Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 30, 2004 9:47:27 GMT -5
Chapter 15 p. 114
The young Martian had gathered all that was necessary for the treasury of the city of Samlios from his nearest on Earth and Mars, now, alarmed and at their wits end they asked Beelzebub "to help them out of their plight." A general meeting was held, invited was King Appolis, who told his "impartial friends" that he "was deeply sorry for what has occurred", and that it was beyond his power to get everyone out of the "prospective difficulties."
He told those assembled that "the machinery of the government" of his community had been "wound up and organized during many centuries", but now everything is "radically changed", and considering the serious consequences were he "to revert back to the old order", which would upset the majority of his subjects, he begs the impartial frieds to help him out of this pickle.
The King greatly blames himself "for all these misfortunes", says he should have "forseen what has occurred, since I have existed in these conditions longer than my opponent and your kinsmen, namely, he with whom I made the agreement known to you." He begs all present, in particular Beelzebub, to forgive him for the wager he made with the naive countrymen, who may have been of "much higher Reason" then he, but had no practice in governing a community such as his, and since he is at the mercy of the impartial friends at the present, he asks to be enabled "to find some issue from the situation that has been created."
I too, wish I could find some understanding issuing from all said.
Beelzebub and company had another meeting that evening, no King Appolis, and selcted from themselves "several experienced elderly beings who should weigh together, that same night, all the data and draw up a rough plan for future action." The elderly beings stayed, the rest departed and agreed to meet the next evening for a second conference, to which King Appolis was not invited.
The elderly beings "pondered and deliberated the whole night upon all the details of this lamentable event", and concluded unanimously that the only way out was "to revert back to the former conditions of the government." They realized that going back to the old order "must indeed inevitably provoke a revolt of the citizens of the community", resulting in the usual chaos on earth during a revolution, to the detriment of "many of those so-called 'power-possessing' beings", maybe even "their complete destruction; and above all, it seemed impossible that King Appolis could escape such a fate."
They then deliberated to find a way to at least spare the King from the "unhappy consequences" of this wager, after which he governed his community "according to to the indications of our young countryman", but very soon it became apparent that the 'simpleton' achieved "quite the opposite" of what he expected.
So the simpleton was King Appolis, and maybe this has to do with suggestibility, "this extreemly strange and singular psychic peculiarity" most terrible for us personally.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Jul 1, 2004 10:35:03 GMT -5
Chapter 15 p. 117 Checking again, I think the simpleton was the naive Martian, not King Appolis, who was "very frank and friendly" at the meeting, and all present "should be extreemly sorry if he himsels should suffer." Beelzebub and the elders deliberated for a long time to find a way to "divert the blow from King Appolis only" if "the fury of the rebellious beings of this community" was directed at his "administration", not the King himself, but the had doubts about the willingness of those near the King taking "upon themselves the consequences of all this? The council concluded categorically that the rebels would blame the King alone for all of it and should pay for it. In order to save the King they decided to "replace all the beings in this community who now hold responsible posts, by beings of our tribe, and each of these latter, during the climax of this "psychosis" of the masses, must take upon himself a share of the consequences anticipated." A report was made by an elected being among them, and they unanimously agreed to do as the elders of their tribe advised them. One of them was sent to the King with the plan of theirs, and the King agreed, and promised once again to do as B and the elders say. Under some pretext or other the administators were replced by B's own officials the following day, but there weren't enough of them on Earth so they immediately sent the Occasion back to Mars, which ship returned a few days later with more of B's tribesmen, who soon filled all responsible positions in Samlios and the community, and the King, always guided by the elders, gradually restored "the former code of regulations for the administration of the community." So King Appolis, the "Archcunning" ruled again by instilling fear and making threats, but because he employes reasonable methods, certain subject-beings of the community respected him before, and "as it was expected" manifested themselves again now. These were the beings "of that community in whom the consequences of the mentioned property of the maleficent organ Kundabuffer had already been thoroughly crystallized." So the Lemurians tried to prevent the Atlantians from abusing the power the organ Kundabuffer affords, but it didn't work in the long run because the consequences of the organ were too deep-seated already in the followers of Seth. The Egyptians had indeed the understanding, say it in words and show it in paintings, and Gurdjieff, to say the least, is so very clever. "Thus the expected discontent grew thereupon (the manifestation of those certain beings) from day to day, until one day, not long after, there occurred just that which has ever since been definitly proper to be present in the presence of the three-brained beings there of all ensuing periods, and that is, to produce from time to time the process which they themselves nowadays call 'revolution.' " Wow ! That's a rose for me this "definitly proper to be present in the presence in the three-brained beings there of all ensuing periods", and yet in us; it must go back all the way to Eden. Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Jul 2, 2004 10:43:44 GMT -5
Trying to keep some things straight in my head.
During Beelzebub's first decent to Earth the Occasion landed on the continent Atlantis, and due to this 'wager' between one of his kin and King Appolis an attempt of a new system of government was made. Since we are talking about the psyche, and since the three-brained beings then and now resist change, whatever new system of government would have been enacted didn't work. Under the guidance of the elders from Earth and Mars the former system was restored, giving the beings in whom the consequences of the organ Kundabuffer had been thoroughly crystallized a chance to manifest again. Everyone there became restless again as expected and a what we call today revolution occurred.
In the development of our peculiar psyche, this would be the stuggle between good and evil in ourselves, but not the origin of it because the consequences of the organ Kundabuffer had already been thoroughly crystallized in some.
Chapter 15 p. 119
Beelzebub calls the beings during that revolution "three-brained phenomena of our Great Universe." It was proper to them that "they destroyed a great deal of the property which they had accumulated during centuries, much of what is called the 'knowledge' which they had attained during centuries also was destroyed and lost forever, and the existence of those other beings similar to themselves who had already chanced upon the means of freeing themselves from the consequences of the properties of the organ Kundabuffer were also destroyed.
We have to notice here an "extreemely interesting" and "exceedingly astonishing and incomprehensible fact", namely, "that during their later revolution of this kind, almost all the three-brained beings there or at least the overwhelming majority who begin to fall into such a 'psychosis,' always destroy for some reason or other beings like themselves, as have, for some reason or other, chanced to find themselves more or less on the track of the means of becoming free from the crystallization in themselves of the consequences of the property of the maleficent organ Kundabuffer which unfortunately their ancestors possessed."
Absolutely amazing, truer words were never spoken . . .
King Appolis "let the process of this revolution" run its course, he "himself existet in one of his suburban palaces of the city of Samlios", and because B and his kin gave word that the administrators, not King Appolis was to blame for the ordeal, nobody laid a finger on the King. Those "who had fallen into the said psychosis" and "suffered grief" even, felt sorry for the King for having "been surrounded by such unconscionable and ungrateful subordinates that these undesirable revolutions occurred."
The revolutionary psychosis subsided and King Appolis returned to Samlios, "and again with the help of our elders" replaced the Martians either by those of his old regime "who were still alive, or by selecting absolutely new ones from among his other subjects." When everything had returned to the old system, the citizens payed money into the treasury again, followed the directions of their King, "and the affairs of the community setteld again into the former already established tempo."
Sounds much like what's going on in Iraq at the moment.
Having been the cause of this fiasco, the naive and unfortuned countryman, pained as he was, left the planet Earth which "had proved so disastrous for him", returned with Beelzebub to Mars, "and later on he became there an exellent bailiff for all the beings" of Beelzebub's tribe.
So in being naive we cause all sorts of trouble, learn a painful lesson, and bail others out by "having been there and done that?"
Have a great "Independence" weekend
Charlotte
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