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Post by Charlotte on May 13, 2005 9:21:29 GMT -5
Hi Daz,
The long and short of it is: I'm coming from the data base I have stored thus far in my being-existence. Where else could I, you, or anyone else come from? Unless, of course, one is just repeating someone elses stuff.
It all started when, as a girl, I looked up one day and asked myself who I am, why I'm here, where I'm going, what is it all for, and why does anything have to exist at all? To find answers to these questions is what makes me 'swing', and you could say I'm coming from the ardent desire to know myself in which case I will also know the secrets of the universe, or vis-a-vis.
I neither agree with the view of Eric von Daniken? (is it?), I know nothing about the man but his name, nor support the ancient astronaut theory, at least not the way it is interpreted in the dead letter of the word.
I follow not any one system, but read and learn from as many as possible, trust the interpretation of a few which then I re-enterpret for myself, and if it doesn't fall into place as in "THAT'S IT", I wait until I come upon the necessary data to fill in. As far as I'm concerned the only thing that matters is the "THAT'S IT", and when that happens you know it once and for all. "How can you be sure you found it -- because there is a starlike structure in you and when a truth hits it-it shines", according to my philosophy teacher, and to any such fixed statement you have to add some moisture of your own to make it come alive and move in your direction.
As you know I sit here almost every morning with my coffee, thinking about what Gurdjieff and others mean by what they say, and enjoy learning anything and everything.
Love.........Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on May 13, 2005 10:37:11 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte and Daz and DON : i wish you all a nice and relaxing and well inspiring pentecost ("Pfingsten"). i hope thate herte in bavaria will come back our beloved spring-time, which presented itself only for a short time, but disappeared since then still for several weeks ! i am very busy, and these permanently changing weather-conditions are stressing, cause i can not plan my home-visits, more precisely the driving to my "little green castle" and doing of some now very urgent jobs ( garden -> planting / house- cleaning and so on, not to forget time for relaxing and wandering through my beloved forests !! and during my normal working-days here in the bigger town of Nurembergh/Nürnberg , i like to sit in front of my coffee-shps or pubs or restaurants, surrounded by some good friends or Girlfriends ( yeah ! ;D ) and NOT MORE inside the house or pub because of this disgusting weather. GRR:::::::::: --- ----- but despite of all somehow nerving conditions: STAY HAPPY AND LUCKY ! best regards from bavaria: Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on May 16, 2005 8:49:02 GMT -5
Glad to hear from you Bernie. I had forgotten all about Pfingsten, love the big red Pfingstrosen, and sorry you have such a Sauwetter so I'll send you some of California's sunshine The metal red copper Harharkh explaines to Beelzebub concerning the metal red copper, which, when artificially manipulated and accelerated has a "specific-density", and compared to the emanation of the Sun Absolute, the atom of red copper "was 444 times more dense, and as much less vivifying, than the atom of the sacred Theomertmalogos" or Theo-logos, the Word of God. Harharkh fixed the automatically moving telescope before Beelzebub's eyes "and turned on and off various switches in a certain sequence." I thing this turning on and off switches in a certain sequences means changes and or in time periods of our evolution. The Raven Harharkh from Saturn then admitted an "influx" of all three parts of Okidanokh of the same "density" into the sphere containing" red copper, and since the density was the same the "force-of-striving" was equal, and the three parts could reblend "without changing anything in the presence of the metal; and the Omnipresent-Okidanokh thus optained flows in its usual state through a special connection out of the" enormous workshop "and is reconcentrated in the first container which you have already seen." I learned of, and also experienced a sudden "influx" of the astral-world, in this case the enormous workshop of Harharkh would be the astral realm to which we have "a special connection." Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on May 20, 2005 8:07:19 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte ( and others ) , ----- pentecost was not a real sensation: our weather here in bavaria stays in a permanently changing and irritating mode ! you can not plan anything ! that's disgusting --- and the temperatures are too low ( its more an april- than a may-weather ) ----- actually i am (again) very busy ---- it is stressing ( "es nervt" ) due to some troubles i/we have to solve within a short time, not caused by our team, but by others, and their somehow chaotic management or plannings --- ok, despite of all : stay happy and in a good condition ! kindest regards & servus: Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on May 20, 2005 10:10:07 GMT -5
Not that it matters much at the moment, I confused Harharkh's enormous workshop again with his most important invention resembling a huge electric lamp made of transparent material, something like glass. Nothing changes in the "presence" of the metal red copper when Harharkh admits an influx of all three parts of the Okidanokh of equal density because the "force-of-striving" is the same, but when he increases only one of the active parts "the elements composing the presence of that red copper begin to involve towards the quality of the substances that compose the ordinary presences of planets." If the word "towards" were absent, I would say that the elements composing red copper influence the quality of the other metals in planets. Maybe you can tell me what it means, Daz, if you're still here. Gornahoor turned switches "in a certain sequence", and Beelzebub watched attentively all that happened but could not in any way, shape, or form describe "even a hundredth part" of what he saw happening "in that small fragment of a definite intraplanetary formation" red copper. However, everything he saw was forever impressed in his essence, and soon, he says, Hassein or we can also "be an eyewitness of so strange and astonishing a cosmic process." Meanwhile, he will tell us about the most intense form of our "chief psychosis" of killing each other by all sorts of methods we have invented, and in some think-tanks they are thinking of new ones in this day and age, which he sometimes observed through his telescope while he existed on Mars. This "destroying each others existence" could also be seen, sort of or "rather-like" proceeding in this small fragment of red copper, the difference being that from Mars it "had a visibility only possible of observation at its beginning, where as in the fragment of red copper the visibility was continuous until the final completion of transformataion." Beelzebub tells Hassein to imagin himself "high up and looking down upon a large puplic square where thousands" of us three-brained beings kill each other, and that what we see as dead bodies "in their places there immediately appear what are called 'corpses,' which owing to the outrage done to them by the beings who are not yet destroyed, change color very perceptibly, as a result of which the general visibility of the surface of the said large square is graudally changed." The visibility was probably dense as this sounds like looking into the astral light, and the small fragment of red copper put on a plate sounds like a reflecting agent in us. Maybe it has to do with our blood where, Occult Anatomy teaches, all events in our life-time are impressed and preserved. Thank God Harharkh changed the whole scene, and "changed the density of the elements of the said metal and thereby transformed the red copper into all the other also definite intraplanetary metals of lower or higher degree of vivifyingness." I don't know if by "intraplanetary" Gurdjieff means the metals which "grow" in the planets, or the metals in our planetary body, and transformation occurs according to our consciousness. Then he writes something very interesting and more to my liking: "And here, for the elucidation of the strangeness of the psyche of the three-brained beings who have taken your fancy, it is very important and interesting to note that while Gornahoor Harharkh was, with the aid of his invention, artificially and deliberately producing the evolution and involution of the density and vivifyingness of the element of red copper, I noticed very clearly that this metal was transformed once upon the said plate into just that same definate metal about which the sorry-savants of your planet have been wiseacring during nearly the whole of their arising and existing, in the hope of transforming other metals into this metal, and thus constantly leading astray their already sufficiently erring brethren. "This metal is called there---'gold.' "Gold is no other than the metal we call 'Prtzathalavr,' the specific weight of which, reckoning from the element of the sacred Theomertmalogos, (Theo=God, logos=word) is 1439; that is to say, it's element is three and a fraction times less vivifying than the element of the metal of red copper." Gurdjieff is talking about alchemy and spiritual transformation. Philosophy teaches that copper was more precious than gold, I remember Mr. Hall saying in one of his lectures that the cap-stone of the Great Pyramid was of gleaming copper, but Mr. Hall practiced "the art of lying" a lot. I also remember Morph's words that the "copper metal of Venus was known as the quintessence of gold, the sun." Lastly, in chapter 18 "The Arch-preposterous", Beelzebub decided not to give out details of what he saw in the fragment of red copper because he "was pardoned by HIS UNI-BEING ENDLESSNESS" for the sins of his youth, and he remembered a promise given to him by "our All-Quaterers-Maintainer, the Most Great Archcherub , Peshtvogner", by way of a sacred ritual over his "essence", that he may not manifest himself as in the days of his youth and keep us bedeviled. He prostrated himself before the Archcherub and gave his word of honor "not-to-pock-(his)nose-into-the-affairs-of-the-authorities", or "certain Sacred Individuals." Meanwhile, traveling on the space-ship Karnak, he will tell about his descents to our planet and "also about the causes of what is called my 'appearances-there-in-person." Meanwhile also, I'll be traveling on an ordinary jet on vacation for a couple weeks, maybe even to Karnak. Be well everyone and much love Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on May 27, 2005 8:10:26 GMT -5
Hello to All here ! may be that Charlotte is currently on her visit to EGYPT. therefore no other contributions here ! actually i had to made this new acquisition-procedure, incl. providing by date of birth ! how i do like US-governenment law --- guess, it becomes crazier and crazier. all this under the argument to fight against the world-wide-terrorism ! arises the question: who are the small terrorists, and who are the much bigger ones ! -- ok, will not discuss this here ! LOL: my birthdate is not the 1.1.1900, no no , but some decades back, more than half a century ! ( hey: did you notice it, my dear BIG BROTHER .. ? ) -- best regards: Bernie
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Post by BERNHARD on May 30, 2005 9:59:26 GMT -5
Dear DON, so good to read this heart-warming story concerning your beloved daughter Angelica. its a true torture to have children, and often have to see all these bad and dark influences our children are confrontated with ! and often one must recognize that one can not help and assist or intervene. on the other hand, what a wonderful surprise, to watch Angelica's new way, with success, with happiness, with so many positive changes , if i understood well all your comments above ! this all certainly causing some tears in your eyes, ..... "smoke gets in your eyes" (song) .... proudly looking at her new way of life, with the (hidden) tears of a lucky father !? am i right ? so i wish ANGELICA all the best ! --- best regards as always : Bernie
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Post by awrence11 on Jan 24, 2008 17:59:49 GMT -5
I've been reading with great interest many of the posted articles on Gurdjieff in the 21st Century. Has the discussion been discontinued as of May 2005, or is there an ongoing thread which i can review. If discontinued why I wonder as this is assuredly one of the few great works of Art handed down from a higher consciousness. Regards, Fred
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Post by PMacG on Jan 25, 2008 6:20:57 GMT -5
Hi All.
I had never read this thread - sorry for that omission. I posted something on the other side recently concerning the red copper (gold) last week:
To be cleaned the vessel is placed on its sides (cryptic meaning of the ends = created sides or movement's), but then in Revolution (of the cycles) it is turned the correct way-up in order to be carried by its two gold rings. It has to be cleaned-out completely otherwise the rings of pure yellow gold cannot hold its weight - thus the weight of yellow gold is the measure of middle, of complete balance, of 'The Way'. Archimedes said - Eureka! It gives the displacement of the waters - the measure of the vessel (its volume) can be known.
And on reading Charlotte's previous post 2005 I said well that's very interesting, this seems to tie together somehow.
Regards - Paul.
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Post by Charlotte on Jan 25, 2008 11:14:11 GMT -5
I've been reading with great interest many of the posted articles on Gurdjieff in the 21st Century. Has the discussion been discontinued as of May 2005, or is there an ongoing thread which i can review. If discontinued why I wonder as this is assuredly one of the few great works of Art handed down from a higher consciousness. Regards, Fred Hallo Fred and welcome to Above as Below, There is not another thread here on Gurdjieff. Prompted by Coggas, I began with great enthusiasm to try and decipher what G means to convey to us veiled in the peculiar language he uses in Beelzebub. He indeed speaks from a higher consciousness. I guessed my way along for some time, Bernhard joyned me every so often, but I needed help specifically for the hard to understand content of Beelzebub to make the next step, which Coggas, who seemed to be familiar with the book, promised. It never came, and without any assistance I was simply overwhelmed and put it down for the time being. My trip to Egypt then moved me further away from the subject. Now and then I think Iwill get into Beelzebub again because even in the beginning I saw the stupendous knowledge, and wisdom, the man possessed, and I love his recalcitrant character and stories of his "grandmother." Regards Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Jan 25, 2008 11:19:03 GMT -5
Greetings Paul Does Orichalcum "more precious than gold" come in here somewhere? Charlotte
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Post by PMacG on Jan 25, 2008 17:24:57 GMT -5
Hi Charlotte.
The word Orichalcum has no meaning for us, we know it was used in various placed such as Solomon's Temple, and Atlantis, plus we know it was said to come from around the Black Sea - the place of Jason's search for the golden fleece (maybe a link there). If it is an alloy of gold and copper or whatever, the description I have for the carrying rings of the ceremony vessel is for pure soft yellow gold. But as it is also described as the colour and weight of 'The Middle Way', then we have a colour that is yellow- ochre, and in this I found the value 1439 interesting as it is - 1 from 1440.
Kindest regards - Paul.
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Post by Charlotte on Jan 28, 2008 12:48:21 GMT -5
Hi Charlotte. The word Orichalcum has no meaning for us, we know it was used in various placed such as Solomon's Temple, and Atlantis, plus we know it was said to come from around the Black Sea - the place of Jason's search for the golden fleece (maybe a link there). If it is an alloy of gold and copper or whatever, the description I have for the carrying rings of the ceremony vessel is for pure soft yellow gold. But as it is also described as the colour and weight of 'The Middle Way', then we have a colour that is yellow- ochre, and in this I found the value 1439 interesting as it is - 1 from 1440. Kindest regards - Paul. Greetings Paul I see you turned 40 today. It goes without saying, but I say it anyway: "HAPPY BIRTHDAY" good health and all the best to you! Interesting mystery speak you do, and the number 1439 in the color yellow-ochre. Sounds "over the Moon with this." Gurdjieff also writes that "this metal red-copper" is "artificially actualized" and has a "specific density" of 444, "that is to say, the atom of this metal" has a density of 444. Maybe you can do something with it? Orichalcum has been vexing me for years now but the "penny" hasn't droped yet. G writes that "the elements composing the presents of that red copper begin to involve toward the quality of the substance that compose the ordinary presences of the planets." It sounds as though this copper was before and "involved" a qualitative substance of which we and all presences on planets are composed. Critias "In the first place, they dug out of the earth whatever was to be found there, solid as well as fusile, and that which is now only a name and was then something more than a name, orichalcum, was dug out of the earth in many parts of the island, being more precious in those days than anything except gold." As far as I know there is no such metal orichalcum found in the earth, but Plato has 7 islands of metal, or "stepping stones" as the Hopi have it. As stated in the post above, Morph wrote that "copper the metal of Venus was known as the quintessence of gold, the sun." Quintessence being the 5th prime and perfect essence "of gold"? Meaning copper, or what it represents, is more precious than gold? This, then, led me to Mr. Hall saying that the capstone of the GP was of copper, and ties in with one account (the other is from Herodotus) of the GP being built: "The upper portion of the pyramid was finished first, then the middle, and finally the part which was lowest and nearest to the ground." Mr. Hall does not mention who gave this account, maybe he made it up to intice the reader to "wait wait, what was that?" We know the "ages" are told in metals, so after gold and silver, something out of this world must have happened, i.e., the red metal copper was "artificially actualized." With the Hopi it would be the "Third World", just before our's, which "color was red" and "mineral copper, the bird - a crow." That would be Beelzebub's great friend Harharkh, the raven. The GP's capstone being copper, and built from the top down, and being a "primitive" pentagram, which is the figure of the orbit of Venus the ancients observed, I remember Morph writing, would all work in our evolution to the lowest and nearest to the ground part, or concrete matter. The four corners of the GP being the arms and legs, and the capstone the head. This 5 pointed star represented man in AE, because "when they wanted to portray the god of the universe they painted a star", for Philosophers, for Leonardo, and today it is on the "stars and stripes", flags of many other nations, logos of sport and other businesses etc. The oil company "Texaco" star is especially interesting. Perhaps the builders of the 3 Pyramids are of that momentous age in ourstory. The moderns know less than the ancients of orichalcum "Orichalcum", writes Philip Smith, B.A., of the University of London, "a metallic compound, akin to copper and bronze, which was highly prized by the ancients. - The word has given rise to much doubt; but the truth seems to be that it denotes brass, with which the ancients became aquainted by fusing zink ore - with copper, although they appear to have had scarcely any knowledge of zinc as a metal. They appear to have regarded orichalcum as a sort of bronze. How little aquainted they were with its true formation is shown by the fact that, deceived by its color, they supposed gold to be one of its constituents, and then perpetuated their error by a false orthography, aurichalcum. (aura would work) The true derivation is no doubt from o!roy and xalcoy, that is mountain-bronze, so called probably because it was optained by fusing copper with an ore (metal as found in the mountain), and not with an already reduced metal." Yes, but what is it??? A link brings up Homer and Hesiod, but "In drawing inferences, however, from Homer's allusions to these and other materials of the useful and fine arts, we must be on our guard not to make the poet's imagination our standard of their actual abundance." BUT "If we turn from the metals themselves to the art of working them, still taking homer and Hesiod for our guide, we find the Greeks of the early period perfectly acquainted with the process of smelting the metal from the ore and of forging heated masses into the required shapes, by the aid of the hammer and tongs. It may, indeed, be doubted whether the (Greek letters) into which Hephaestus throws the materials of the shield of Achilles, and which are worked by the blast of twenty pairs of bellows - are smelting furnaces or mere smith's forges --, but the former sense seems to be required in the passage of Hesiod --. Both Homer and Hesiod refer to the smith's workshop --- as a common lounge and as a place of shelter to which the poor resorted for its warmth." Common Smith's workshop, maybe, but not the forge of Hephaestus, the great workshop of Harharkh. I schlep the anvil over to your house now, Paul, let the sparks fly on your Birthday Charlotte PS Aside from the sparks, Paul, I don't mean to get into Beelzebub at the moment. I found a "smithy" in Shugborough. The numbers would be intersting though. Here is the best of orichalcum ancientfiles.dumpshok.com/orichalcum.html
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