Tanis: City of Lost Souls ?

[Don Barone]

Hi all:

Believe it or not I was introduced to this strange Egyptian lost city with Indiana Jones: "Raiders of the Lost Ark" I am sure we have all seen the movie and wondered how much was truth and how much was fiction. I thought it would be interesting to discuss it here.

What I did was do a search on the net and found some very strange things had occured here and that there were also many strange carvings or scuptures which had been found but not often spoke about or discussed in mainstream literature. I will post a few images below and we can go into them on this thread.

What we do know apparently is that this city was completely destroyed. The date I believe was around 1200 BC [although I could be off here and am to lazy to do a search right now, seeing I am right in the middle of this post] However some of the sculptures are very, very strange. Have a look for yoursleves.

and finally the real "Well of The Souls"

All in all a city like no other in Egpyt's history. What can any of you add to my understanding of this strange and fascinating city ?

Cheers
Don Barone

[jaq]

Hi Don,
Maybe you'd like to select the items one by one or something - those you find most curious perhaps - and we could discuss them and see if we can eliminate some of them? I recognise a few of those images, so let's know which ones you find most strange and see if we can come up with some answers?

[Don Barone]

Hi Jaq ...

Why do we not start with what I affectionately refer to as "The Killer Rabbit of Tanis".



Any ideas ?


Cheers
Don Barone

[jaq]

What are your impressions of the close-ups you've posted? The one that looks like Seth with a bird's bill?

Been looking up the significance of the hare in Ancient Egypt, and apparently it represented the keenness of the senses.

Also, long ears denoted wisdom to the AE, (silence and listening were seen as the way to wisdom) and Osiris has been portrayed with very long ears- also there is a monument covered in ears ? Can't remember where but I can look it up.

Anyway, whilst looking up the hare I came across this site - quite interesting, though it might be stretching things a bit

ancientegypt.hypermart.net/records/

[jaq]

close up and dangerous

www.osirisnet.net/tombes/artisans/inerk/photo/inerk.jpg
taken from here www.osirisnet.net/tombes/artisans/inerk/e_inerk.htm
"The scene that follows is also among the most celebrated in ancient Egyptian painting : a seated cat, with frightening jaws and long hare's ears, holds in one of its front paws a knife, with which it destroys in a blood bath a long snake, whose head is pinned to the ground by one of the cat's back paws(view38) . A tree, probably a persea, shewn behind the snake and the text inscribed above the cat enables this scene to be Interpreted as the victory of an ally of the sun over the redoubtable Apophis, the serpentine enemy of creation. This vignette is usually featured in the complex iconography of Chapter 17 of the Book of the Dead."
With the killer rabbit?? I'd prefer to have him as an ally anyway.......

Jaq

[Don Barone]

Hi Jaq ...

Last April or May while going through what some might call Temporary Insanity and which certain others might call an enlightenemnt I suggested that the reptillian headed beast might in fact be an actual statue of a lving entity or previous god like creature. Well you can imagine how that went over. However I thought my posts were well done. I will search Ma'at and Graham's and see if I can find the postings. As to my pet killer rabbit affectionately nicknamed "Tanis" he is in fact a killer as this picture will show:



This picture from a necropolis at Deir-el-Medina. We had discussed this god over at Ma'at just a while ago yet I never made the connection to my killer rabbit until now. Long ears = wisdom ... serpent = wisdom ... wisdom killing wisdom.

Curiousor and curiousor

Don Barone

[jaq]

Hi Don, StarSeal, all

I've been searching for the emblem you referred to StarSeal but couldn't find an image exactly as you describe

If I come across in the next few days I'll be make sure to save a copy and post it hehre to help with the discussion.

That said, you've described perfectly my understanding of what the two serpents represent.
Don, the serpent plays a duel role. You'll often see an image of the Ouroburos with two serpents, one winged - to represent the universal word spirit, the cosmic spirit that brings everyting to life, wich also kills everyting and takes all the forms of nature. The one without (usually the winged is above, the one without wings is beneath) represents our matter, or the earthly nature. The aim is to make the two into one; so that the one consumes the other and then this "one" that is left is the actual ouroburos - in coptic Ouro means king and in hebrew, ob means a snake, so you get the "king snake" These are the two snakes of mercury's staff.

Can't stay just now, more later
Jaq

[jaq]

StarSeal asked:Jaq, I'm curious; is your understanding of the Ouroborus from your studies in Gnostisism; because it sums up the bit I spoke about earlier quite flawlessly. It's curious that Gnostic teachings would omit such a key aspect as the good nature of the moon (the creatitory aspect of) and especially pertaining to lunar eclipses, perhaps it was a piece that never made it into their teachings,... a key peice I might add!

Hi :-)
My understanding of the Ouroburos comes mainly from studying alchemy and alchemical texts and imagery/symbolism; I can't remember exactly what was discussed in the Gnostic classes on the subject of the ouroburos. But like you say, and as we discussed recently, the positive aspect of the moon was omitted in the teachings I attended; one that I could not then, nor have been able to understand since. It may have been something that they would have been introduced later, as the classes do not follow any order to maintain the element of unpreparedness - so perhaps I only heard the complete negative side and the positive side would follow (after I had to stop going)
I would like to ask Charlotte about this when she's back from Egypt, as she is taught by a brilliant man, Dr. Hoeller, and I have always wanted to ask her about this point, and what I may have missed.

But back to the 2 serpents of the ouroborus - the winged represents the volatile, and the one without represents the fixed. As you know, it is the ongoing struggle of the fixed and the volatile that is a major theme in alchemy (- like the 2 lions also)
In ancient Egyptian images the Ba has wings....so, the Ba and Ka could also be the same as the 2 snakes or the 2 lions.

What's interesting in the "Killer Rabbit" scene, is that the rabbit/cat is killing the snake, and is also, according to the script, "depicting the victory of an ally of the sun over the redoubtable Apophis, the serpentine enemy of creation." So do you think Apophis might be the opposite of the Ouroburos, -if the snake of lower matter and that of cosmic energy don't combine into the Ouroburos, (the ally of the sun) we may get the enemy of the sun/creation - Apophis? Is that a silly idea?

Jaq

[jaq]

Just to add......that is, if Apophis is the enemy of the sun/creation, it does not necessarily equate with the serpent of matter, though of course it might very well!

Jaq

[Don Barone]

Hi All:

In the picture below ...



the "Serpent" of wisdom [is this the same serpent as in Genesis and of apple and knowledge fame ?] is being cut open with the feather [of truth ?]. And as we all know The Truth can be a very powerful tool indeed !

Best Regards
Don Barone

[jaq]

Wasn't a very famous icon reported to have said "I am the Way,(the path) the Truth (Ma'at, as it should be)and the Light?" The true path, not the path to false perception :-)

Jaq

[Jaimi]

Here you go Jaq, from 'Dreams' by Carl Jung.

Steve

[jaq]

Hi All
StarSeal - the fully realised serpent man...here's a link to a piece I put together on this subject on my website
www.btinternet.com/~abraxa9/Gnostichome/arthur2.htm

I think anyone can achieve the state symbolised by the Ouroburos; it's the same as Kether - Godliness. I was taught that Egyptian Pharoahs were initiated from a young age - I have some notes on this (very scant as it was all very easy to understand and I only kept notes on the subjects that needed more thought!) One thing I have posted about before is that even Tutankhamun is thought to have reached this stage. Where it fits in with Atenism is another subject for discussion, but if you look at Tutankhamun's coffins, the outer of the 3 looks like the usual representations ( a "likeness" of sorts) the one inside that - and one of the 3 is possibly Smenkhkare's it has been suggested) is less lifelike, then the innermost of the 3 is solid gold, in an expression of pure peace and represents his "realised self" state.

Jaq

[jaq]

Hi StarSeal, All
(Thanks for posting the images of the Ouroburos smakes btw Steve!)

StarSeal wrote:
"I agree; (sorry for the cunfusivness) I was moreso (in that instance) speaking of the other aspect in the dual nature of the Ouroburos, a creativatorial perspective which has to do with the consistancy of a creatorial aspect echoed down through history rather than attainment(which is also)."

I understand now - sometimes it takes me a couple of read-throughs before I get the picture


"Both are there; they go hand in hand either not being capable of existance without the other. Like intertwined archtypes in a dna like spiral; or two three dimensional phi spirals intertwined point to base..."[/url]

The cause and the effect? (or am I missing the point again )

"The Sapphire Sphere from whence all creation eminated from and the Kether are as the Ouroburos and the circle with the center point; the outer edge of divine light is that of the ecliptitorial edge emination of a matter eclipsed light, the (center to inner outer edge as material; and the center to true outer edge as light),... Kether = crown Crown = ring of light Ring of light = the divine light of enlightenment."

Now that's made my day

You always fill my head with answers and sometimes one such answer is enough to last and ponder on for days. Give me a chance to appreciate that one before we move on will you?

Here's a little more on the Egyptian notes I have in my little notebook:
(Looking at our "7 bodies")
The 4 "inferior" bodies are represented by Tutankhamun's tabernacle (the cube - the physical, the astral, the mental and the vital bodies) the 3 coffins represent the "superior". The innermost - solid gold coffin - represents his reaching the creation of his own philosopher's stone - his internal creation of his own energy. Once we are fully realised/awakened/conscious, we generate our own spiritual energy - we must energise all seven of our bodies with consciousness.
To do this, there are many paths to follow - Buddhism is Master Lessons for the Mental body, to energise the mind. Christianity is (in it's pure form) according to my teacher, "university level". The knowledge from Tantra are golden pieces of knowledge - Jesus' lectures and "miracles" was the key to alchemy, of tantra in the far East - Christians have now lost this key, as he was teaching us how to manage energy. Each of these schools of knowledge are a key.
You may feel your energy in certain areas being drained but it is important to keep the correct balance in all in order to function - we shouldn't overuse any of the centres too much.
For example, there are 5 centres in your "vital" body.
1. The Intellectual centre, that gives you the energy to think
2. The Motor centre, in your soulders and neck
3. The emotional centre in your diaphragm
4. The instinctual centre at the bottom of your spine
5 The sexual centre in your genitals

Your energy should be equally balnced in all of these centres of the "vital" body.
Each centre may try to rob energies from another centrew - some people seem emotionless because too much emphasis is being placed elsewhere - intellectually or sexually or whatever -this can be apparent. Illness can be a result of excess of use of one centre, resulting in a collpase of energy in another.
Instinct doesn't need the intellectual body and acts at high speed - intellect acts slowest.

An ego can be "created" by robbing the energy from one of these centres, so the aim is to build a barrier between the ego that would rob this energy from that centre. This is where egos hide - and when the term "know thyself" comes into practise. There's a psychological rebellion takes place in that centre as you identify the ego (if you find one hiding in a certain centre) it may be an ego of self-pity and depression in the emotional centre, and this ego will put up a fight.

To be able to energise your 3 superior bodies you must eliminate these egos that drain and keep your energy unbalanced in the inferior bodies. The one that drives you towards this is your 5 th - the Causal body. This is WILL, the key against the ego, discipline this and use it against the ego
the 6th is the conscious body
and the seventh is the super.

You can feel the vibrations in your own psyche, so your body can be controlled either by the weakness of the ego, or the strength of the WILL.


Jaq

[IAB777]

Hi Don,

It's good to pay my first vist here. Now Tanis, quite an interesting place. For one thing, there were the exciting discoveries made here by Montet in the Great Temple of Amun. Tanis, was of course, the capital of the 21st dynasty in Egypt. Most of the Obelisks and statues appear to of been looted from Ramesses II's delta city, Per-Ramasses, some thirty odd obelisks would of adorned Tanis, and 26 of them had belonged to Ramesses.

Tanis in it's turn was wrecked to provide material for Sais and Bubastis by the Kings of the 26th Dynasty, and in particular Sheshonk III.

Best

Ian