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Post by Charlotte on Mar 8, 2004 11:12:06 GMT -5
Hallo everyone,
Over the weekend, I followed some of the links on the web, learned a bit more on Gurdjieff, and saw clearly that I practically know nothing about the man.
From an article in Telos I learned a few things about G's travels in Egypt. About being in Thebes, the writer of the article quotes G spending all "my free time walking among these places like one possessed, hoping to find, with the help of my map of pre-sand Egypt an explanation of the Sphinx and of certain other monuments of antiquity."
Concerning the temple of Karnak, "the most remarkable religious complex ever built on earth", and that he probably named the "ship" Karnak because of it, which was my first thought when I began reading Beelzebub.
My thinking for a decade or so, is that we are mostly flying on the knowledge of the ancient Egyptians, not because "the most learned nation on earth" (Porphyry) is the only one, but because the Egyptians are with us daily, here in Los Angeles anyway, either with TV programs, advertisements, announcements of events in the Egyptian Theater, and sometimes on the news. Los Angeles is the new Alexandria.
Ouspenskys's words of experiencing the Giza Plateau: "as extraordinarily real, as though I was suddenly transferred into another world, which to my own astonishment I seemed to know very well. At the same time I was aware that this world was the distant past. But here it ceased to be past, appeared in everything, surrounded me, became the present. This was a very strong sensation and was strangely definite", could be my very own, word for word.
Back to Beelzebub's Tales, and what I basically understand, I think.
In the last chapters, B tells Hassein that the earth at some time was uninhabitable by thre-brained beings, had not yet had time to form an atmosphere which could have served as a buffer for the collision between the comet 'Kondoor" and the planet Earth wouldn't have been so violent as to detach two fragments from it, the Moon and Anulios, also called Atlantis in days of old.
For the maintenance of the Moon the Earth has to send constantly the sacred vibration 'askokin', so there is a constant rapport between the two. That we are 'Similitudes-of the-Whole', man a microcosm of the macrocosm, as the Philosophy teaches, and that there was a transition of the 'findamental sacred laws' into an illusionary process. That we have the possibility of perfecting ourselves as have all the other forms of 'Tetartocosmoses' or terrestrial beings arising throughout the whole Universe.
That Atlantis had been forgotten for some time, but because we need to understand what it was and is all about the collective human psyche has been compelled to re-member it, hence it is rising everywhere nowadays and can't be pushed down again. And due to the organ 'Kindabuffer' there crystallized and became part of the common precence of the Atlantians something called 'Kimespai', which never allowed them to sleep in peace. This 'Kimespai' gave them a certain power, and roughly half of them missused it in the most grievous way, became sourcerers, polluted the atmosphere of that planet, and a great flood resulted.
Another interesting thing from the article. G said "Hypnotism was called Mehkeness in central Asia." In Arabic Mekheness means "to clean without water", "to clean dust away", and Fern said it was psychological smog of which the earth had to be washed clean. Maybe we're in for it again because there is an untolerable amount of it all around our planet. It feels like being in a pressure cooker.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 18, 2004 11:03:42 GMT -5
Chapter 10 Why "Men" Are Not Slugs
Beelzebub tells Hassein that during the period of actualization of 'Ilnosoparian', if he means it in the sense of the time honored axiom "the world is an illusion", or in modern quantum physics "the observer and observers together created reality", or as one scientist iirk said "I am observed therefore I am", or the British philosopher Bishop Berkely "to be is to be observed", there "had gradually been coordinated on this planet (Earth) also the corresponding processes for the involution and evolution of everything arising there", and we gradually acquired objective Reason.
As far as Fern taught me, and as I said before, the evolutionary process was 'caused' by involution of spirit to manifest objectively, was the beginning of 'things'. "All is light" according to the Rosicrucians, and modern science is gradually realizing this, namely that the 80% or so "dark matter" could be light.
It was due to the Most High Commission under the supreme direction of the Archangel Sakaki that 'misunderstandings connected with the three-brained beings arising on that ill-faded planet might have not occurred'. The High Commission had taken measures before, such as the Earth should constantly send the sacred vibration 'askokin' to its detached fragments, and came back to see how we were doing, and saw they needed 'to actualize certain further measures, the consequence of which have not only gradually turned into a stupendous terror for the three-brained beings themselves who arise on this ill-fated planet, but have even become, so to say, a malignant sore for the whole of the great Universe'.
By that time a 'mechanical instinct' had already been engendered in us, and the reason the Most High Commission threw a monkey wrench into our development by mechanical instinct alone is that
'these biped three-brained beings of that planet should develop toward the attainment of Objective Reason--asusually occurs everywhere among three-brained beings--then it might quite possibly happen that they would prematurely comprehend the real cause of their arising and existence and make a great deal of trouble; it might happen that having understood the reason for their arising, namely, that by their existence they should maintain the detached fragments of their planet, and being convinced of this their slavery to circumstances utterly foreign to them, they would be unwilling to continue their existence and would on principle destroy themselves'.
It is beautiful, G sweeps into one paragraph where we came from, why, the fall, what our purpose and work, re-deeming and spiritualizing ourselves and all matter, raising our vibrations to be able to look directly into the sun and shining as One with it, utterly conscious of being All that exists. And the purely divine and holy vibration of humility arises within and bends the knees, and through grateful tears streaming one pleads to stay there. The meek shall inherit the Earth.
"We have been saved so many times it's about time we make it on our own." Fern. It looks like an ardous task.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 19, 2004 11:19:35 GMT -5
Chapter 10 Why "Men" Are Not Slugs page 88
Beelzebub tells Hassein that in order for the three-brained beigs not to realize the enormous pickle they were in, which may cause them to riot and destroy each other, and since every jot and tittle must be accounted for ultimately, the Most High Commission implanted into their common presents "a special organ with a property such that, first, that they should perceive reality topsy-turvy, and secondly, that every repeated impression from outside should crystallize in them data which would engender factors for evoking in them sensations of 'pleasure' and 'enjoyment."
Eye-wise we do see upside-down, confusion and disorder is everywhere, and animal of all stripes and colors do things mostly to be rewarded in one way or another, and impression from outside are said to be 'stored' in the blood'.
Among the members of the Most High Commission was the "Chief-Common-Universal-Arch-Chemist-Physicist Angel Looisos, who caused to grow in the three-brained beings there, in a speacial way, at the base of their spinal column, at the root of their tail--which they also, at that time, still had, and which part of their common presences still had its normal exterior expressing the, so to say, 'fullness-of-its-inner-significance'--a 'something' which assisted the arising of the said properties in them."
"And this 'something' they then first called the 'organ Kundabuffer', or Kundalini, which remnants or tail end are still in our common presents but very "remote." Having given the impetus for this organ to grow, and seeing that it worked, the Sacred Individuals were reassured and with a good conscience went back to the Center, whilst on the planet Earth which had taken Hussein's fancy, "the action of this astonishing and exceedingly ingenius invention began from the first day to develop, and developed, as the wise Mullah Nassr Eddin would say--'like a Jericho-trumpet-in crescendo." LOL, love the wise Mullah Gurdjieff sitting beside me here.
For Hussein to gain some understanding of the results of the properties fathered and actualized by the incomparable Angel Looisos, eternal blessings be upon him, Beelzebub will explain later "the various manifestations of the three-brained beings of that planet, not only during the period when this organ Kundabuffer existed in their presences, but also during the later periods when, although this astonishing organ and its properties had been destroyed in them, nevertheless, owing to many causes, the consequences of its properties had began to be crystallized in their presences."
The various manifestations of three-brained beings sound like the various races, including the "speechless" race of Apes, whose parents are said to be Adam and his first wife Lilith, and the later period Atlantians, in whom the organ Kundabuffer was fullblown with that Jericho trumpet, and the 'Kimespai' meaning of 'Never-Allowing-One-to-Sleep-in-Peace.' And this brings up once again magic and sourcery and the misuse of said properties, and the cause for the waterless flood recorded and passed down through the ages by so many a civilization. And as I mentioned before and elsewhere, the older races, such as the Arabs, Jews, Australian and Meso-American Aborigines, this magico is yet crystallized in their to a great degree undeluted thick blood. It's true.
"Blood is a very Special Fluid" says Goethe, the Egyptians call blood 'senef', and Senefru is "The Bringer of Beauty", and his Red Pyramid is "The Gleaming Pyramid of the South."
Charlotte
During work yesterday my mind made a correction: it is the Bent Pyramid which is called "The Gleaming Pyramid of the South." The Parsis equivalent is "the lamp of the Deshtur."
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 30, 2004 11:21:56 GMT -5
"Meetings with Remarkable Men" >all and everything . 2nd series<
Over the past week or so I read in it to page 176, the end of the chapter 'Prince Yuri Lubovedsky', and found some of G's things 'jumping out', which led my thinking in the same direction, a direction that seems to come naturally to me, and which G lovers more than like already know, as that of the writer of the article in 'Telos', who states:
"Interpreting symbolically, Gurdjieff, the man of being, and Skridlov, the man of science, are walking from the prehistoric period into the historic--ffom the Sphinx to the Pyramid of Cheops--when they hear Prince Lubovedsky call out. The first part of Lubovedsky, interestingly enough, in Russian means 'love'. So, in effect, Cheops is the location of the first encounter between being, reason, and love, and from this sacred triad springs what will be a modern reformulation of an ancient teaching. Note that Gurdjieff will tell Uspenskii, 'The teaching whose theory is here being set out is of other lines and it has been up to the present time'.
My second thought about the 'pre-sand Egypt map' was that it is not a 'map', but a Teaching imparted to G by the Armenian priest, and when G says he was a 'tour guide' by the Pyramid another red flag went up. As I read on I got to know G's 'guiding' and pretty soon found myself walking on stilts of varying hights through the 'ups and downs in the dunes' during sand storms, and when he mentioned his 'ladder was some sixty feet in lenght', and that even only climbing 'a third of its height' he 'emerged from that hell', I knew we were 'above'.
"But fortunately, as soon as I discovered, the upper surface of the sand-filled atmosphere has irregularities of contour exactly corresponding to the irregularities of the sands, so that walking on stilts is considerably facilitated by the fact that one can clearly see by the contours of the sand-filled atmosphere where one dune ends and another begins.
'In any case,' concluded Dr. Sari-Ogli, 'it had been shown that the sand-filled atmosphere has a definite and not very high limit, and that the contours of it's upper surface always correspond to the contours of the desert itself; and one must admit that it is absolutely necessary to make use of this discovery in the journey we have ahead of us."
Or in the words of Thoth Hermes to his son Tat: "When you grasp this my meaning, my son, (that the above corresponds to the below) that which seems to the many to be hidden will be most manifest to you."
How could I not dance with such a beautiful mind!
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Mar 31, 2004 11:39:02 GMT -5
Meeting with the mind of G again, chapter VIII The conscious multi-personality of Gurdjieff? G considers Ekim Bey is another remarkable man he met, " and whose manner of life in his later years, either by will of fate ot thanks to the laws operating in a 'self-developed individuality', was arranged down to the smalles detail like my own. At the present time this man is in good health from the ordinary point of view, but according to my view, and speaking between ourselves, only his physical body is in good health." "Speaking between ourselves", as if there was no one but him and me whereever I am, he talking, me listening intently to even the simplest phrases. Moreover, the tenderness in his voice makes me feel warm all over, not to mention the smiles and lol's he knowingly causes by masterfully playing in and with the readers mind. Reminds me of Mr. Hall saying "Yeees, where did you say you come from?" What a wonderful place some people make this world to live in. "It is interesting to note that, contrary to generally accepted opinion that people belonging to two different nationalities which have been engaged in centuries of racial struggle ought to feel toward each other instinctive hostility and even hate, and in spite of the difference of upbringing in family traditions and religious convictions, nevertheless, between Ekim Bey and myself, after our first meeting in early youth in quite unusual circumstances, there gradually arose a close friendship; and later, when through all kinds of trivial incidents our inner worlds had been drawn together like two 'arisings from the same source', our feeling for each other was like that of brothers." The "arisings from the same source" and becoming like brothers I see as two aspects of our composite nature getting to know each other and intergrating, a la Jung. I'm not saying that G might not have met and traveled with remarkable men, and so far he makes mention of "a certain young lady" he accompanied from Constantinople to Russia, who reminded him that she was the person "whom you once so hated that the flies which came into the sphere of the radiation of your hate perished." I'm still carrying my stilts through the Gobi on this one. "In this chapter I shall describe my first chance meeting with Dr. Ekim Bey, who is respected by all serious persons that know him, as well as by the common run of people, who regard him as a great magician and wizard." Indeed. "I will also recount briefly several significant events which took place during our wanderings in the depths of Asia and Africa." G goes on to say that Ekim Bey was a man of merit and that he now lives in a small and insignificant place in Egypt and is called "Pasha." Whenever I'm in Egypt and need to talk to a stranger I always address him "Sir-Pasha", works well most of the time though sometimes the flies perish. When G met Ekim Bey they "were of the same age." Before that "when I was still chased about like a harassed dog, seeking answers to the questions arising in my brain--which according to the notions of most contemporay people had become sick with psychopathy--I also happened to go to Constantinople, drawn by rumours of numerous marvels supposed to be performed by the dervishes there." Would it be considered presumptious of me to say that I so identify with G's "notions." There is something about the Dervishes I loved immediately, and many years before I heard of them I had this short and clear dream, always fresh in my mind, in which I stood in an Airport looking at the words on a sign spanning the distance right to left or left to right, as far as I could see "If all else fails go to Istambul." So now Chartres and or Constantinople are on my mind. Does anybody out there have about $100000 to spare so I could put everything on hold for a year or so? "On my arrival at Constantinople I arranged to stay in the district called Pera and went from there to visit the monasteries of various dervish orders. Living at the time in the company of these 'dervish zealots', (lucky man) and of course not being occupied with anything practical and thinking about nothing except all kinds of dervish nonesense, one gloomy day, I clearly recognized without any illusions, that very soon I would have absolutely no what-is-called 'dough'. Lol, it's 7:30 and I clearly recognize that if I don't go right now I'll be in the same predicament. Have a great day whoever you are. Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 1, 2004 10:00:56 GMT -5
The journey of Gurdjieff and Soloviev to the "chief monastery somewhere in the heart of Asia."
G met up with the dervish Bogga-Eddin again and asked him where he was all this time, to which Bogga-Eddin replied that he chanced to meet an extremely interesting man whom he served as a guide, and that accompanied by this man he returned to Old Bukhara, learned that G was in New Bukhara and went to see him.
The dervish told G that 'this old man is a member of a brotherhood, known among the dervishes by the name of Sarmoung, of which the chief monastery is somewhere in the heart of Asia', told him that 'this extraordinary being somehow knew a great deal about', and agreed to see Gurdjieff, even though G was 'by origin a kaphir who, 'thanks to his impartial attitude toward all people' had succeeded 'in aquiring a soul similar' to the members of the Sarmoung brotherhood.
"Kaphir is the name given to all foreigners of other faiths--and this includes all Europeans in general--who, according to the notions" where this old man came from, "live like animals, without principles and without anything holy in them."
The thought of meeting this old man set his "brain in a whirl", he begged to meet him as soon as possible, did so, the two gentlemen had several long conversations, and this old man told G that he would find guides to take him to this monastery in the heart of Asia if he "would take a solemn oath never to tell anyone where the monastery was situated", to which G instantly agreed. G had become greatly attached to his friend Soloviev and asked the old man if he could take his friend with him on this journey, to which the old man replied: "I think you may" if your friend is cool.
A month later to the day, G and Soloviev were to meet the "four Kara-Kirghiz", their guides to the monastery, "near the ancient ruins of the fortress of Yeni-Hissar on the banks of the Amu Darya."
"After the costumary ceremony, we all ate together, and when it began to grow dark we repeated the oath they required of us, and after they had pulled bashliks over our eyes, we mounted our horses and rode off." ("A bashlik is a hood which may be put on in such a way as to cover the face completely")
I have to look at a map now for the river Amu Darya, and perhaps Cogga's, if here, would be so kind as to tell me where I can find a referenc to the fortress Yeni-Hissar. If so, thanks in advance, if not, I'll have to keep on riding on my horse with my face covered by a bashlik in the dark.
Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 2, 2004 10:46:56 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, oh, you need some more stuff and a little assistance ! here is a quite good map of today UZBEKISTAN (Usbekistan), main capital is TASHKENT (Taschkent) , and here we find such famous oriental cities like SAMARCAND (Samarkand) and BUKHARA/BUKHORO (Buchara) : www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/commonwealth/uzbekistan_rel94.jpg ok, and searching for the (above mentioned) fortress of "J(Y)ENI-HISSAR" (?) i believe it is the impressing big fortress of (today) KAMPIR-TEPE. a fortress to guard the trading routes and a important river-ford (FURT) just right here ! built in the THIRD CENTURY BCE, even visited by the troops of ALEXANDER THE GREAT, crossing the river Amu-darya ! its extended fields of old ruins are situated on the higher Loess-banks near river "AMU DARYA" , all this ca. 30 km west from the city of TERMEZ/TERMIZ ! ( look at the map i provided above: in the most southern part of UZBEKISTAN). this interesting archaeological site is now under exploration by a japanese team ! look at: www.jica.go.jp/uzbekistan/kampir.html so far and to all a nice weekend now ! greetings: Bernie
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 2, 2004 11:03:49 GMT -5
DEAR Charlotte, .... ADDENDUM...: and here, near OLD TEPEZ/TEPIZ you find the Buddhist monastery complex of Kara Tepe !! it is unique in Central Asia, a rock-hewn Buddhist cave complex. But it is not always available because an access there necessitating an official permission. so the OLD fortress near Tepez/Tepiz, at the right bank of river Amu-darya could be the fortress you have been looking for !?? kara tepe: www.berzinarchives.com/islam/hist_sketch_west_turkistan.html and : www.hknet.org.nz/VWH-World.html -- cheers and ciao: Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 5, 2004 11:24:56 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard and thanks for the links If I had looked here first, I could have saved myself some time wandering all over Asia, but I like geography. I couldn't do to much studying, Saturday I worked and Sunday was such a beautiful day. Did I go to the beach? No. Did I go shopping or to a movie as reward for all my hard work? No, I really got into Spring-cleaning, and as I dusted off my books I came across, to my surprise because I had forgotten I had this book, "Lemuria-The Lost Continent Of The Pacific" from the Rosicrucian Library. On the cover is seated a Buddha upon a lotus, and below is the subtitle "The Mystery People of Mt. Shasta", which surprised me even more, and at once, as it happens under such circumstances, thoughts that had settled began to swarm and rearranged themselves differently for a new picture. I opened the book and read: "Legend proclaims that Mount Shasta in northern California was the last refuge of the survivers of the lost continent of Lemuria. Here, the tales relate, the Lemurians established a secret colony preserving their ancient costums." But when two pages later I red: Dedication In appreciation of the first researches into the history of the lost continents of Atlantis and Lemuria made by that brilliant mind and soul, SIR FRANCIS BACON this book is dedicated to his memory and everlasting greatness of character. I was so happy and energized that I took the entire hood over my stove apart to clean, and door and windows open permiated the neigborhood with Beethoven's 4th and 5th, then at the request of the rock and roll loving couple to my right, I put on the Grateful Dead's "Terrapin" the ancient turtle, upon which back the "vanishing island" in one of the Aladdin videos rises, but never in the same place twice. Since Gurdjieff mentions Aladdin I thought I can too, but I didn't say any of this to my neigbors. So it was an all around relationship forming Sunday. I'll let you know what is written in the book I found (not the book I had in mind) in the Atlantis thread. About the journey of G and Soloviev to the monastery in the heart of Asia, G says they met their four guides near the ruins of Yeni-Hissar on the banks of the Amy Darya, and then went on to the mysterious monastery. I have little doubt that it was a Tibeten Buddhist monastery, but doubt it was the ancient fortress Kampir-Tepe which is an archeological site in ruins. That is not to say that there couldn't be a functional monestary beside the ruins. In "The Berzin Archives" is says that the latest of the monasteries, "a wooden monastery, was constructed at Medeo near Almaty in the early nineteenth century", which is more in G's time. When I looked at a physical map at first I saw east of Bukhara is the Sogdian capital of Samarqand, which is close to the word "Sarmoung". I was also surprised that G found Prince Yuri Lubovedsky in the monastery, maybe I missed how he got there. When their eyes were uncovered for the fist time, G says that they deduced from the character of the surroundings "that we were either in the valley of the Pyandzh River or of the Zeravshan, as there was a broad stream flowing beneath us, and the bridge itself with the mountains surrounding it was very similar to the bridges in the gorges of these two rivers." G then mentiones "monuments" on mountain tops, "high blocks of stone" placed for the traveler to orient himself "in this chaotic, roadless region." From the same article: "Around Lake Issyk Kul, some 'mani' stones have been found underwater near Przhevalsk and along the southern shore of at Tamga Gorge, as well as at the Julku and Barskaon Passes to the south of Issykata Pass to the north of the lake. Mani stones have been found from this period at Tanglaly-Tas in Semirechiye, at various sites near Almaty and at Zanka Gorge on the south shore of lake Issyk Kul." For some reason even unknown to myself, Almaty stands out, maybe just because it has a more gentle sound than the rest of this foreign language. G also talks at lenght about those dangerous bridges, not to be crossed blindfolded, and "on the way we changed horses and asses several times, and sometimes went on foot. More than once we had to swimm rivers and cross mountains, and by our sensations of heat and cold it was evident that we sometimes decended into deep valleys or climbed very high. At last, when at the end of the twelfth day our eyes were uncovered, we found ourselves in a narrow gorge through which floed a small stream whose banks were covered with rich vegetation." It would seem that one doesn't need a sensation of heat or cold to know if one is descending into a deep valley or climbing a mountain, and he says among other strange things "on our right, and in front of us, but a little to the left . . ." I don't know about this "Aga Georgi" talk? Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 5, 2004 11:49:55 GMT -5
DEAR CHARLOTTE, it seems, you are very busy indeed ! yes, i know, why i brought the Mount Shasta into you attention ! and now a fine website with many stuff in context with G and his life, persons, and locations ! have a look at: www.gurdjieff-internet.com/about.php and of special interest is the sub-page entitled with "the search for truth" ! greetings from bavaria: Bernie
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 5, 2004 12:06:25 GMT -5
DEAR LOTTE, just reading again your answer, it seemed to me, that you missunderstood something: the ruins on the right river bank are the rests of an old fortress, built somewhere in the third century BCE. these ruins are not the remains of the monastery itself, but was the "markant" (simply to find in the landscape) meeting point to start the visit of the famous monastery from there ! and the buddhist monastery, hewn in rocks, is not far away ! therefore G and his compagnions did not have to walk a very long distance !? that was my idea ! these ruins of that old big fortress are the only mighty and good viewable field of ruins here, and situated on a higher (!) point at the right bank of the river amu-darya as well. guess, there are not so many other alternatives for other suitable locations !?? -- Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 6, 2004 11:21:28 GMT -5
Hi Bernie, "Wenn der weisse Fleider wieder blüht Sing ich Dir mein schönstes Liebeslied . . . " I saw a lady yesterday coming out of of flowershop with an arm full of lilac and rushed in to buy some, but she bought all of them I love the exquisite scent of this short blooming flower almost as much as multicolored red roses. California is to warm to grow lilac. Love Gurdjieff more because ageless! I suppose the main problem is to find evidence to prove that that a Sarmoung Brotherhood existed thereabouts in the heart of Asia, or exists today somewhere on this our "peculiar" planet under whatever name. Nothing duing, you know what happens to great teachers. During a lecture given by the chemist teacher I sometimes mention, Rosicrucian trained also, one of the older students made some comments and an exchange of words went something like this: S "How do you all these things?" T "I just do." S "Why should we believe that what you tell us is the truth?" T "You don't have to." S "Can you tell us in plain English what you are talking about?" T "No, if it could be told, everybody would have told their brother already and you would know it." S "You talk about initiates and such, how would I know one if I see one?" T "You don't, especially with your attitude, if I was a Zen master I would come over there and slap you across the face, but I'm not going to do that" he smiled and continued lecturing. You know teachers choose students not the other way around. Gurdjieff says that on the journey they "changed horses and asses several times, and sometimes went on foot", and "more than once we had to swim rivers and cross mountains." Their last halt was when they arrived, as I qoted yesterday, "in a narrow gorge through which flowed a small stream whose banks were covered with rich vegetation." They ate, and then "we set off again, but this time not blindfold. We rode on asses up the stream, and after we had ridden half an hour through the gorge, a small valley opened up in front of us surrounded by high mountains. On our right, and in front of us, but a little to the left, we could see snow-capped peaks. While crossing the valley, after a bend in the road, we sah some buildings in the distance on the slope to our left. As we came nearer we were able to make out something like a fortress such as one finds on a smaller scale on the banks of the Amu Darya or the Pyandzh. The buildings were encircled by a high unbroken wall." They rode "in at the first gate, were met by an old women to whom the guides said something; they then immediately rode out again through the same gate." So G indeed mentions "a fortress" but it's "on a slope", whereas in one of the article is stated: "Kampir - Tepe (also called Kafir-qal'a) lies on a high loess terrace on the right bank of the Amu Darya river, 30 km west of the city of Termez in Uzbekistan." You know, Bernhard, we could walk around this "unbroken wall" encircling the fortress several life-times before we could understand precisely what G is meaning here, because I think he is a wiseacring somewhat, which I so love about him and I hear him smile on several levels at once. Consider the crossing of the bridges, not to mention the "high, folding step ladder" stilts with iron soles, and the sand-ground mutton-ordinary salt-mixture-food for their journey. G says it would have been better for them to cross "this bridge blindfold", for seeing it they experienced nervousness and terror, and for a long time they couldn't bring themselves to set foot on it. He only describes "such bridges often met with in Turkestan for a short cut, he does not say they crossed one in Uzbekistan. On the eight day of their journey they were "about to cross a swinging bridge which one could neither cross on horseback nor walk over two abreast, but only in single file, and this it was impossible to do with eyes covered." Above, the "dweller on the threshold" comes to mind. He goes on to say: "The sensation one has when one stands on one of those bridges and looks down to the bottom of the gorge", an abyss, "where there is usually a river flowing", above and below, can be compared to that of looking down from the top of the Eiffel Tower", an oversimplified example, "only many times more intense; and when one looks up, the tops of the mountains are out of sight", really being between rocks in a deep place, "-- the mountains can only be seen from a distance of several miles. Moreover, these bridges hardly ever have a handrail, and they are so (straight and) narrow that only one mountain pack-horse can cross at a time; furthermore, they rock up and down as if one were walking on a good spring mattress--and I will not even speak about the feeling of uncertainty as to their strenght." They are held on each end with a rope tied to a stone or tree, and it is not recommended to cross them even by European "thrill-chasers", no, because curiosity kills the cat, or as Pythagoras says that once you left your house to go on this journey, you cannot return because the furies will attend you. So I ask you--how does a person, let alone a pack-horse, cross a bridge, G doesn't say anything about, say 4 by 1 by 12" wood plancks strung together or other, that swings like a good mattress, has no handrails, worrying about the rope tied to a tree or rock thinning with each step? Of course, they could have used one of those "twenty feet long stilts" they brought with them and placed parallel across the back of sheeps to carry them across the Gobi, which they sometimes placed upright and climbed up to avoid Goblins. Forget the pack-horses, the only way I can see is to without any baggage whatsoever, preferrably naked because it would be a major problem if the clothes were to get tangled in the ropes, crawl across very slowly, with each cm waiting for the swinging to subside completely while hanging on for dear life. "Some rise, some fall, some cry" and crawl "to get to Terrapin . . ." Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 7, 2004 10:40:21 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, yes, this greek-armenian man becomes more and more interesting to me, i must confess ! i had known some basics about him, but the more i read in context with Guardjieff, the more i find out some very interesting aspects ! i surely will not make a god out him, this is an old human mistake, and this is not, what G himself seemed to achieve, but he was, and finally IS, a person with many interesting facettes of personality, charisma and knowledge ! i will continue to study some more informations concerning his work and its still continuing influence on many persons today ! --- will need time, will last some time , but i guess it is worth ! ok, now to the brotherhood, mentioned above ! found a good piece of information at: www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/sarman.html -- and then to the ruins of the old FORTRESS ! may be, they, incl. G used a boat on the AMU DARYA to travel, -- hmm the river upward ?? -- hmm ! and apropos a bridge ! theredid not have to exist a bridge ! ( destroyed ?? ) at these times ( as today ) , in poor countries they often used fairies ("faehren") to cross a big river ! therefore we do not stringently used for the item "Bridge" in G. tales (and mysteries) !! further: G. used the term SLOPE, ok,and the modern text used TERRACE. is there so much difference, for a non-geologist. and we have to remember: G. wrote his book some decades later, i guess !?? based upon his own memories and may be) a diary ! for a man with his intentions this would be of none interest if a river-bank with slope-character or a terrace like river-bank ! or ?? well, we need more detailed descriptions, but G. himselg can not provide them anymore ! his human remains have been buried near Paris, at the location of AVON ( tout pret de Fontainebleau -> chateau superbe !! ) -- this is more for our background-readers and the "big brother company" ( haha ! ) --- for some minutes in memory of George Guardjieff : here is a look at his grave at AVON near Paris (France) : www.sirian.co.uk/avon2002.htm - so far: Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 7, 2004 10:42:41 GMT -5
Onward with this magical mystery tour.
Magnetized by the great wizard and magician Gurdjieff I find myself more bedeviled by the day, but not so bewildered because I have been to some of these places before. The more I glean of his mind and personality, the more he is all around me. Impossible to express in words. Aside from him and Francis Bacon/Shakespeare I know of no other physically 'dead' man I am so in love with. Hopelessly romantic.
The people around me during my growing up in what I first thought was a gods forsaken town in Bavaria were all wrong. Instead of the warning that if "you're not good Beelzebub will get you", it should have been: "If you're really good Beelzebub will get you." Where did this expression come from anyway? I knew everyone in town and can categorically state that none of them read G. It's probably a vage memory of Baal.
Before I went to sleep with Beelzebub again last night I read some from the beginning with more profit this time. Also, due to a link to the marvelous article "A Talk by David Hudson" Cogga's supplied over at GH, I re-read the "not very complicated system" of the ship we are now flying on of the Angel Hariton with new and little better understanding. Must needs mull over the article.
On page 90 Beelzebub says that during their third descent the Most High Commission saw that things were ok for the time being, and with the help of the Arch-Chemist-Physicist Angel Looisos the organ Kundabuffer with all its astonishing properties was destroyed in the three-brained beings on earth.
B himself, his kinsmen and some of his near attendants remained on Mars while others prepared or went to exist on other planets by the ship Occasion. B had already set up his Telescope on Mars and devoted himself to "the more detailed observation of the remote concentrations of our great Universe and of the planets of this solar system", among them the planet Earth.
"Time passed.
He saw that the process of existence was proceeding as on other planets, that the three-brained beings were gradually increasing, he observed a very strange manifestation "which was never done by three-brained beings on any other planet, namely, they would suddenly, without rhyme or reason, begin destroying one another's existence."
Sometimes we destroyed each other in several places simultaneously, and this killing each other "would last not just one 'Dionosk' but many 'Dionosks' and sometimes even for whole 'Ornakras.' ('Dionosks' signifies 'day'; Ornakras signifies 'month.') lol When we were not fighting our numbers noticeably increased. B and his gang gradually got used to our behavior and explained to themselves that the Most High Commission, seeing the fecundity of us biped beings, gave these properties to the organ Kundabuffer "for certain higher considerations." They had done this "with aforethought, in view of the necessity that they (we) should exist in such large numbers for the needs of the maintenance of the common-cosmic Harmonious Movement." Arghh, what a lot we are, being used thusly while using each other.
Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 7, 2004 11:25:18 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, .. addendum..: we have two (!!) famous buddhist-monasteries at/near the old city of TERMEZ/TERMIZ : the rock-hewn KARA-TEPE (or QARA Tepe) = the modern name in use, -- attention : there exist some other ancient locations named "kara tepe" ( but in other countries like IRAN, TURKEY and so on ! ) , ..., and another big buddhist complex at FAYEZ-TEPE ! under the government of the KUSHANS , a big buddhist movement and buddhist culture grew up ( in the time from 100 - 200 CE ) here around TEPEZ in these buddhist monasteries ! -- Bernie --
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 8, 2004 9:39:31 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard,
Unreal, I slept til 6 this morning, Schlafmüze, so all I have time for is read some of the links while I drink my Café and will get back to you tomorrow.
Thanks Bernhard
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 9, 2004 13:00:11 GMT -5
End of chapter Why "Men" Are Not Slugs p 92
Why should we exist in such large numbers "for the needs of the maintenance of the common-cosmic Harmonious Movement."
Are we "foods", supply energy for beings benevolent and monovalent "just above mankind?" Just as the animal kingdom feeds on the next lower, the vegetable kingdom, which in turn feeds on the unregenerated mineral kingdom in darkness. And when animals are fed animals they go "mad", or are at least as far as humans are concerned, "weighed down" by animalism, and the first indications that it is time for the many to stop eating animals are observable. The few throughout the ages did this already. To stop eating animals, which exotic animals above and below were gifted by the Nubians for the enjoyment of the initiated Pharaohs, who knew all this then because they tell us about it, is part of the current world-wide revolution in consciousness which causes the necessary mess we are going through below. Methinks anyway.
Though stressing the "responsible life" often, in one of the links Bernhard supplied, Gurdjieff is quoted:
"Men are mashines who are not responsible for their actions. We cannot do. With us everything happens." "Buffers are appliances by means of which man can always be in the right. To destroy inequality and suffering would destroy evolution and the 'shock' needed to overcome the buffers."
Though discrete, subjectively also, all dimensions must be connected by a membrane or we couldn't experience others at times and for a short time, and the higher principles in us nourish themselves on the lower, transmuting them. Moreover, it can be easely seen that we absorb energy from each other, some people are regular energy vampires, when in the sphere of their existence we feel weeker and weeker, and when we part from them we feel all washed up.
This also has to do with the story of vampires, dead persons who come and make "two" puncture wounds, above and below, with their "eye teeth" (fascination) at the jugular vein to nourish themselves on the blood, and only a wooden dagger can kill them, wood as opposed to metal, being a sort of non-conducter or neutralizer.
I know I'm getting away from Beelzebub's Tales, but I have to go the whole hog (though not the stamp here) and tell another story about this "foods" business, part of which I said before.
About a decade I read a book I couldn't put down, even though I practically understood nothing of the content, and that is probably the reason why I can't remember much of it. I do remember that I considered it fiction or unreal. It was written by Stefano Colonna von Bronzino, who was a Roman general, I don't know when, where, why or what, but he must have been a man of merit because his portrait hangs in the "Galleria Nazionale d'Arte Antica", painted by Raffael or Giovan Battista Gaulli, or somebody else.
Amonth later I went to see my family in Germany, and my sister, her friends and I went to Rome. I think it was in the "Basilika San Paola Fuori le Muru", St. Pauls own, while walking around looking at things, a sunken enclosure with what I assumed was a sarcophagus covered entirely by a heavy copper plate caught my attention. Many and various coins lay on the plate. Our tour guide came over and asked me not to throw coins because it scratches the metal. No no, I won't. Then I read something like: here rests Stefano Colonna von Bronzino, General in the Roman Army . . . I remember standing there dumbfounded because what he had written in this book was fresh in my mind, and because he had actually existed when I thought he was a fictional character in a story.
I was all exited and asked my sister to come and look at this grave because, I told her, I had just a few weeks ago read a book by the man resting here, in which he said that the violence he saw on the battlefield was nothing compared to the horror he saw by hideous beings above the battlefield feeding on the emotional energy and the fresh blood spilled, but didn't. The hopeful sign is that we are transmuting this ugly side in us.
Beelzebub remarks that if it wasn't for this "strange peculiarity" of destroying each other, none of the beings on the other planets would think that there is "anything 'queer' on" our planet. He visited most of the planets of our solar system, "the populated and the as yet unpopulated", but personally he liked best "the three-centered beings breeding on the planet bearing the name Saturn, whose exterior is quite unlike ours, but resembles that of the being-bird raven", that it is interesting that the form of these being bird-ravens breed on almost every planet "of the whole of our great Universe, not only on almost all the planets of our solar system."
"The verbal intercourse of these beings, ravens, of that planet Saturn is something like ours.
"It can be compared to the singing of our best singers when with all their Being they sing in a minor key.
"And as for their relations with others, they--I don't even know how to describe them--can be known only by existing among them and by experiencing them oneself.
"All that can be said is that these bird-beings have hearts exactly like those of the angels nearest to our ENDLESS MAKER AND CREATOR.
"They exist strictly according to the ninth commandment of our CREATOR, namely: 'Do unto another's as you would do unto your own.'
Sounds like the new commandment of "Making a New World." These bird-beings must be "those whose heads have been purified", I read in the "Parchment of the Sarmoung Brotherhood." All the while I have been waiting to find out what the name Sarmoung means, and thanks to Berhard I read this:
Sarmoung or Sarman
"The pronunciation is the same for either spelling and the word can be assigned to old Persian. It does, in fact, appear in some Pahlawi texts... The word can be interpreted in three ways. It is the word for bee, which has always been a symbol of those who collect the precious 'honey' of traditional wisdom and preserve it for future generation." Just so the AE did for us. "A collection of legends, well known in Armenian and Syrian circles with the title of The Bees, was revised by Mar Salamon, a Nestorian Archimandrite in the thirteenth century. The Bees refers to a mysterious power transmitted from the time of Zoroaster and made manifest in the time of Christ."
John G. Bennett.
From this gentlemen I want to learn. Here I find confirmation of what I was taught earlier, namely, that "Christ" is of the line of Zoroaster. Plethon.
Beelzebub will tell more later of these three-brained being on the planet Saturn because one of his "real friends" was a being of this planet during the whole period of his exile in our solar system. This his friend, maybe brother, "had the exterior coating of a raven and whose name was 'Harharkh.' "
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 11, 2004 11:54:55 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard, Don, and All,
In the past couple days I read some more in the "Gurdjieff Internet Guide", and found that other people suspect or know what I began to glean not to long after beginning to read "Beelzebub's Tales" and "Meetings", namely, that much of what G writes is symbolic. Having a tendency to project too much in that direction, I didn't trust my thinking at first, but as I read on, so many things G says raised a red flag, on his journey to the monastery deep of Asia the heart, for instance, and all the bullets flying, that it could not be taken literally. He does what all such writers do, as I said before, select names and places to take the reader to that swinging like "a good spring mattress" bridge without a handrail, and as he would say: 'now that we are among ourselves', or 'between the reader and me', has to be crossed alone.
In particular the bridge crossing which I also wrote about symbolically as leaving all baggage behind and crossing naked. James Moore, in Gurdjieff- Anatomy of a Myth writes:
"The allegorists...construe Gurdjieff's entire monastery story symbolically, beginning with a wayside episode involving a dangerous rope bridge over a deep gorge. The hero on the 'perilous bridge' is noted as the very stuff of myth and folklore: in the West we have Lancelot's sword bridge, (also the empty 'seat perilous' at King Arthur's Round Table), and Bifrost the Scandinavian rainbow bridge; in the East there is Sirat, The Muslim's bridge over hell, and the awesome Shinvat bridge of the Zoroastrian last judgement. As the remote and secret spiritual center ringed by mountains, it is a glyph which, as 'Shambhala, pervades Tibeten and Mongolian culture..."
It is always the same story, so to speak, there is an 'empty seat perilous' at King Arthurs Round Table, an invisible Sephiroth called 'Daat" or abyss between the upper triangle and the lower worlds of formation on the Kabalistic Tree, the inner Christ presides over the 'Last Judgement Day', the AE have the journey of the deceased, or unregenerated person through the underworld, the Dweller on the Threshold of the philosopers, etc.
Today is Easter Sunday, and the exceedingly painful 12 stations up to Golgotha the skull is but another version of the journey perilous, symbolic death, three days in the duat, and then resurrection. I received an Easter card from a Muslim, showing the opening to the tomb where Jesus was laid perfectly square and the rolled away stone perfectly round. I asked the same Muslem once if he believes the crucifiction story, "no", he said, "it was projected onto the minds of Christians." And the Exodus across the Red Sea, 'out of affliction' toward the Land of Milk and Honey. Exept for two gentlemen I know of, one Rabbi and one retired Catholic Priest, Bible scholars do nothing to clear away the fog of the many, and at the moment the fanaticism of Mel Gibson reinforces the dead interpretation of "the greatest STORY ever told and least solved", as they harped away yesterday on TV again. It's time to re-solve it.
I also like Zoroaster coming up in connection with G, and in my reading came again across Ashiata Shiemash or Mithra, so the lines of "the power of association" are beginning to move toward the appropriate dots.
I agree with, and understand what G writes on page 198 in "Meetings", concluding his chapter on Ekim Bey, which I read last night:
"In writing this chapter, which has revived in my memory our various expeditions and wanderings through Asia, I have recalled by association the courious notion about this continent which is held by most Europeans.
Having lived fifteen years uninterruptedly in the West, and being constantly in contact with people of all nationalities, I have come to the conclusion that no one in Europe knows or has any idea about Asia.
Most people in Europe and America have the notion that Asia is a kind of indefinite, great continent adjoyning Europe, and inhabitet by savage or, at best, semi-savage groups of peoples who just happend to be there and go wild.
Their ideas about its size are very vague; they are always ready to compare it with European countries and do not suspect that Asia is such a vast continent that several Europes could be put into it, and that it containes whole races of people about whom not only Europeans but even Asiatics themselves have never heard. Furthermore, among these 'savage groups' certain sciences as, for example, medicine, astrology, natural science and so on, without any wiseacring or hypothetical explanations, have long since attained a degree of perfection which European civilization may perhaps reach only after several hundred years."
Madam Blavatsky confirms this emphatically. I have never been further east than Egypt, but even there, having gained their trust and quite familiar with the psyche of the Egyptians, and also familiar with European and American thinking in such matters, I say G is spot on.
I watch and listen, seeing where the heads of the inner circle of our Government are at, and see that they are not capable of perceiving the oh so intelligent and clever mind of the Arabs, or they wouldn't have invaded Iraq. They seem to me as children who don't understand much but want to have it their way at any cost.
And now, Bernhard, "I'm off to see the wizard", as we say in America; by the time you read this I will be in Cairo. Can't live too long without sitting by the Pyramids and breathing in the atmosphere there. I have many question to ask the people there, and this time I will also think about G.
Stay well everyone!
Parted from thee, I planned to while my hours With lighter loves of Art and Nature's store; And sweet to me for sure were choral bowers, And thymy banks and river's sedgy shore; Bemused in cloistered woods and rose-hemmed lanes, I sang old lays and ballads of new times, And wove my wanderings through with sweet refrains, Joyed in rich words and revelled in rare rhymes; Beauty's own self took forms of small regard: Ditch and rife hedge and lichen-clambered walls, Bees and brown birds and daisy-dotted sward, Lush field and weathered rick, and dells, and knolls;
But this one marvel capped my wonderment, Thou wert beside me everywhere I went.
Love
Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 13, 2004 11:19:37 GMT -5
DEAR LOTTE, i wish you a fine and exciting stay at EGYPT and have some wonderful and relaxing days there ! see you ! voila: a bientot ( "auf bald ! ") ---- greetings: Bernie
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 19, 2004 9:19:31 GMT -5
DEAR Charlotte, while you are enjoying your holidays at Egypt ( i hope so ) , i found a very actual BBC-report about the old fortress of Kampir-Tepe (Kampyr-Tepe) near the river AMU DARYA, and something about a sweet sleeping BUDDHA ! look at : news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/3630167.stm --- guess we two are the poor lost lonesome fighters here, like Don Quixote and Sancho pansa .... rises the question : who of us is Qixote ?? ( you ? --> QUILOTTE ! ). all others, incl. dear Don, are hiding themselfs in the background, waiting for some informational sensations ! ?? Best regards from Bavaria: Bernie
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Post by coggas on Apr 21, 2004 8:48:58 GMT -5
Hi Charlotte,
It has been a while, my appologies.
Some say that G. is all allegory, well me thinkist knotso.
What page are we up to ?
Cogga's.
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 24, 2004 13:37:42 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard, Thanks for the good wishes, and yes, I had a good and relaxing vacation, and after the 3rd glass of whisky lots of laughs on account my friend saying that "my nerves always sleebing very calm inside, but when you come they wake up make me confused and give me headache by your gomplaining." Ok, I said, I won't complain anymore about the bathtub water not draining, the showerhead falling on my head, and trying to turn it off to possibly fix it, the right handle for cold water fell off too; the toilet not flushing, worrying about the electricity going off, the thermostat of the water heater not working, so the water literally boils and tries to force its way out of the shaking sink faucet, bubbling in the toilet, a benefit, steam coming out of the tank, and the heater itself sounds like it will explode any minute, so standing at the furthest possible distance he pulled the plug and shut the door extra tight, just in case, and there we sat anxious waiting for things to calm down or not, while the mosquitos were eating me alive. "No, no", he said, "bleese gomplain, I used to your gomplaining now, I addicted to your gomplaining, I love be miserable when you here", and went into one of those invigorating high rants till we both rolled on the floor and laughed the world away. But sometimes at a rants end we are "in a holy moment." Anyway, I hope you recovered from the stress you mentioned in your last post and we can start dumm or wiseacring anew to see what turns up. LOL Quilotte, Don claims the title of Don Quixote already, and as to information sensation, Fern: "nobody wants to hear it anyway." Thanks for "Uzbekistan's best kept secret" I never doubted that Kampyr-Tepe and other Buddhist Monestaries existed, where the monks kept the secrets safe until the time is right, or it is lawful for us to know them. This time is usually when a certain number of our collective humanity has matured to absorb and hold such things dear, gradually talking about it like we do until it reaches the least interested, because it is said that no one makes a step up without putting another on the step he was standing. All go or nobody goes. The leaving the flock and going after the stray sheep thing. From the article: "It was here (Kampyr-Tepe) that Alexander raised his capital more than 2,000 years ago. This was the furthest conquest , then, of the Greeks in Asia." This implies that Alexander "raised" Kampyr-Tepe. Interesting. I read that he built cities along the way, some still have his name incorperated, that he brought Greek culture to Persia especially, and learned from them in return. Alexander, the last of the "most famous sons of Hellas" was more than an extraordinary conquerer. These great world figures and teachers come in groups when an impulse is needed to move humanity forward and upward. They are easily traceable, historically, and Historians are baffled why it is that some such formidable minds are born at the same time and work together, born as if with the knowledge, rather than learning for 80 years to aquire some. But the answer is just to simple for them. We can talk about this some time in more detail, you know, when we have more time. Well, it's good to be back, missed my routine, have a pile of clothes here bothering me, so I'll be back probably in a couple of hours. Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 25, 2004 11:54:30 GMT -5
Hi Cogga's, I thought there for a minute that you had abandoned me altogether. "We" are up to page 94, concerning the peculiar psyche of contemporay man. I know I'm slow, a quick Google search doesn't do much for me, and considering the vast subject I am compelled to turn onto many side-roads to gather leafage with Bernhard before I can listen to Beelzebub again. But it's getting easier. I couldn't take Beelzebub's Tales with me, would have taken up all the space in my hand bag, but so delighted was I by the article "A Talk By David Hudson", for which I mean to thank you, that I took it with me to Egypt and actually had some time to study it. On the flight back, a law student from Holland, and a lady from LA, and myself, were talking some about Egypt, and I never miss an opportunity to bend slightly toward anyone eager to hear a little more, to tell a few things of the alternative view, and while exited with the new stuff I throw in a few things about science which I do understand at a critical moment. Such was the case here, I showed 2 of the more simpler paragraphs I had highlighted to my interested neighbors, with 'in other words . . .' One of the paragraphs was: "In a normal atom, around the nucleus there is what's called a positive screening potential that exists around the nucleus and this positive screening potential screens all of the inner electrons. Only the valence electrons, the ones on the outside, are available for chemical bonding. They are not screened. They're called valence electrons. When the nucleus goes to the high-spin state that positive screening potential expands out and overlies all the electron orbitals and all of the electrons become screened. Now some amazing things happen when the electrons are under the screening potential. The electrons are time forward and time reverse electrons, actually get in perfect harmony and pair up. They couple. They become married and they literally become pure light in the high-spin state. All of the valence electrons are no longer valence electrons, they become pure light." And, out of context: "It was the theory of superconductivity. And 'Cooper pairs' are when a time forward electron pairs with a time reverse electron, they become pure light with no particles. There is no particle aspect anymore. It's light!" If nothing else the three of us awed a "light moment." As far as the system of the Archangel Hariton is concerned, "now in use everywhere at the present day", I found this in the article: "They (the physicists) found that the atoms were arranging themselves at about 6.3 angstroms apart. Their conclusion was that's it's like there's a coulomb wave that comes off the atom. This atom is in a high-spin state. But it's actually out of balance, and resonates in 2 dimensions instead of 3 dimensions, and it's got a coulomb wave that it produces. The next atom gets into that wave and can't get any closer than the last wave coming off the (previous?) atom and so it's repulsed. But in the bottom of the wave, it's attracted. and so at about 6.3 angstroms, the next iridium atom will nestle in that wave and perpetuates the wave and the next and so on." Gurdjieff "Striving to find an outlet from this, for them constricted interior" (the expanding substances in the cylinder-barrel=when the nucleus goes to a high-spin state the positive screening potential expands out "taking in" the valence electrons) they naturally press also against the lid of the cylinder-barrel, and thanks to the said hinges the lid opens and, having allowed these expanded substances to escape, (the coulumb wave?) immediately closes again. And as in general Nature abhors a vacuum, then simultaneously with the release of the expanded gaseous substances the cylinder-barrel (coke-bottle) is again filled with fresh substances from outside (the valence electrons available for chemical bonding) with which in turn the same proceeds as before, and so on without end." There is light, and the ship can be moved in any desired direction? You said "ask", I'm asking. Since St. Germain came up just the other day, I distinctly remember him stressing iridium and the coulomb wave. I also took with me "SRAR FIRE - The Gold of the Gods", in which Sir Laurence Gardner mentions "the powder of the highward fire-stone is a monatomic superconducter." To my delight he touched upon the magnificent "Account out of the Arabik", of why and with what the King built the Pyramids and what all he put into them. It is one of the finest above and below, left and right, and alchemical descriptions of things by "the Arabians: which traditions of theirs are little better than a romance." No, I don't think G is all allegory, but he does do some wiseacring with a Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 26, 2004 10:05:09 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte ! you are back ( hurrah: in a good condition ) , so and i am back as well ! ( i took an "out-time" for some days last week ! ) just reading your notes on the egypt trip, i was really amused. sounds like the old stories by Karl May, cause in his books he presented his orientalic scenery often like this ! yes, i was laughing driven by my nearly unlimited phantasy, getting the full illusion of what has happened to you ! btw: i recovered a little bit from stress, but i still do need some more relaxation ! i will try to achieve this the next weeks ! ( i was really "stoned" ). my health is currently a little instabile as well, no wonder, but the now upcomming spring will surely help to strengthen me ! i want to work outside in my garden, and i want to wander through the forests and the greens surrounding my house ! i like and i needed it ! -- ok, now back to you : regarding this interesting but multi-faced man (he died to young as so many others) named Alexander the great i remember an information, actually kept in a hiding status ( i believe ) from Hellas: some two (?) months i realized a very exciting finding, caused by building of a new street in GREECE ! the stumbled about a big untouched dome-shaped tomb ! it must be a royal once. it was reported by greek newspaper. of course they stopped the current activities. an archaeogist mentioned, that the tomb seems to be untouched ! actually i did not hear/read anything more ! may be, they are working, and do not want to bring it into too much publicity, and that's why they are practicing a kind of "information hiding" ( ??). following the architectural layout of the tomb, i would like to refer it to the mycenaen type !?? ( therefore dating back to end of the second millenium BCE , or at least around 800 bce ? the tomb of a king or a prince ! bringing back the time of the astonishing discoveries made by german Heinrich Schliemann and his wife Sophia at TROY, MYKENE and Tiryns ! --- for the moment wish best greetings: Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 28, 2004 10:13:19 GMT -5
Chapter 11
A Piquant Trait of the Peculiar Psyche of Contemporary Man
Beelzebub is glad that Hassein is a long ways from the the three-brained beings arising on planet Earth because he is seized with horror of what they might do to him if they could get a hold of him for insulted their dignity by calling them 'slugs'. At best they would give him a thrashing "that as our Mullah Nassr Eddin there says, 'you wouldn't have recovered your senses before the next crop of birches."
B advises his beloved and only grandson who dared to call us 'slugs', that whenever he statrs something new he should always bless fate and beseech her mercy to guard him and "prevent us from ever suspecting that he so insylted us."
During his time of observations on Mars, and also during the periods when he existed among us, says Beelzebub, he studied our psyche thoroughly, so he knows well what we would do Hassein for giving him such a nickname, not taking into consideration that Hassein did call us 'slugs' when he was yet a naive child.
"Who called them, why, and in what circumstances--it's all one. They have been called by a name they consider insulting--and tha's enough.
"Discrimination in such matters is, according to the understanding of most of them, simply, as they express it, 'pouring from the empty into the void'.
Well we don't have time to waste on such trifling matters nowadays. Reminds me of a master in discrimination, Socrates, and everybody knows that the AE went into the minutest detail of explaining a thing, erroniously thought and called "a pun or play on words", and other such fancied interpretations.
In any case, Hassein was extreemly rash by calling us by such an offensive name, it made his grandfather anxious for him and Hassein laid up for himself "a menace for the future." And even though we can't get our hands or wrap our minds around this devil business, if we should "chance to learn even at twentieth hand how you insulted them, then you could at once be sure of their real 'anethema,' and the dimensions of this anathema would depend upon the interest with which they happened to be occupied at the given moment."
This it true in the sense that the devil has lost credibility for many, but so has God or the good, so we muddle along left to our own vices and devises, and what a job we're doing!
Beelzebub continues: "Provoked by such an incident as you thus insulting them, if everything was rather 'dull' with them at the given moment, owing to the absence of any other similar absurd interest, they would arrange somewhere in a previously choosen place, with previously invited people, all of course dressed in costumes specially designed for such occasions, what is called a 'solemn council.'
G then hints on how we elect a president, and sort of paralells varying stages of trail and error democracy in America and other countries with the court system, in which system people get picked to pieces, and if not enough "evidence" is found they do the same with their father, grandfather, and if need be dig for anything incriminating all the way to Adam to get their client exonerated though it is obvious to even the sleep-walking majority that a person is guilty as sin, whereas on the other hand, a phrase coined by Socrates, others they imprison for convinience sake. And when the system has to free the innocent, thanks to some such upright and hard working three-brained beings, most executioners of the process having 'lost their case' and reputation as a brilliant and competant procecutor, their ego's jolted to a point that they insist on a re-trail unless it's to much trouble, which then they call 'not having enough evidence to win the case' to perhaps make themselves feel better about having broken the spirit of an innocent person by letting him languish in prison for a deacade, more or less. But things are improving here somewhat.
"But if they should happen, by a 'majority of votes' to find nothing criminal in your action at all--though this very seldom occurs among them--then this whole 'trail' of theirs, set out on paper in detail and signed by the whole lot of them, would be dispatched--you would think into the wastepaper basket? Oh, no!--to appropriate specialists; in the given instances to what is called the 'Hierarchy' or 'Holy Synod', where the same procedure would be repeated, only in this case you would be tried by 'important' beings there.
It's interesting to listen by what logic the members of the Supreme Court form their opinions.
"Only at the end of this true 'pouring from the empty into the void' would they come to the main point, namely, that the accused is out of reach."
Truly, in the greater scheme of things.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 29, 2004 10:55:21 GMT -5
End of Chapter11 page 96
Beelzebub to Hassein
"But it is just here (realizing that Hassein is out of reach) that arises the principle danger to your person, namely, that when they are quite certain beyond all doubt that they cannot get hold of you, they will then unanimously decide nothing more or less, as I have already said, to 'anathematize' you.
And do you know what that is and how it is done? "No! "Then listen and shudder.
"The most 'important' beings will decree to all the other beings that in all their appointed establishments, such as what are called 'churches', 'chapels', synagogues', 'town halls', and so on, special officials shall on special occasions with appointed ceremonies wish for you in thought something like the following:
"That you should lose your horns, or that your hair should turn prematurely gray, or that the food in your stomach should be turned into coffin nails, or that your future wife's tongue should be three times its size, or that whenever you take a bite of your pet pie it should be turned into 'soap', and so on and so forth in the same strain.
"Do you now understand to what dangers you exposed yourself when you called these remote three-brained freaks 'slugs'?" Having said this, B "looked with a smile on his favorite."
It is really unfair to anathematize Hassein, as he, in chapter 7, became exeedingly melancholy and voiced concern and compassion for us three-brained being, gave thought and appreciated the beings who labored and suffered in the past to make our sad song better, that we don't ponder this question, let alone thank them.
Overhearing the conversation between the Captain and his Grandfather, Hassein understood all this for the first time, drooped his head in silence while there proceeded in him a 'procces-of-remorse'.
It is the story of the 'fall' yet again, which the teachers in their 'appointed establishments' themselves don't want to understand, and even if some of the 'important' beings do, they don't have the courage to break the ice and inform the many for understandable reasons. As it stands at the moment, they would anathematized out of existence.
This happened to Fern to a certain degree, rashly calling 'them' straw-heads and brick-heads, whose institutions are outlived and are nothing more than covers for corruption. No matter, her work will be carried forward.
Conserning the fall, to my astonishment and delight also, a poster over at GH mentioned what I have heard whispered before, that perhaps Jehovah, an Elohim himself, was the serpent in Eden. And as I said before, there were two God's in Eden, one God, the other Lord, who bcame inseperable Lord God.
God said "let US make man in our image and likeness", the Lord God comes in only after the generations of heaven and "made the earth and the heavens." the dualistic 'above and below' in broad terms. And after that the Lord God, being jealous and wanting to be more powerful than our COMMON CREATOR, "of whom nothing can be said" according to Enoch, set Adam in the Garden 'east' of Eden, the material world, and gave him an help meet, and told them that they could eat of every tree but the tree of the knowledge of good and evil "lest they become as one of us." What good is it when you're a god and have no one to wield your power over?
But Lucifer had compassion like Hassein and said to Eve "go ahead and eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, it's a long process and will cause you excruciating pain, but one of these eons the words 'Ye are gods' will come to pass, and then you will understand that you have me wrongly anathematized because I am your Redeemer.
"And the Lord God called onto Adam, and said onto him, where art thou?" How come the omniscient Lord God doesn't know where Adam, who hid himself because he was naked, a new humanity is devoid of attributes, is? And why does the Lord God also asked Adam to name the animals after his deep Eden sleep, an assimilating period of what has been learned in the previous age? Maybe this Lord God fell with us and has to work and remember just like the rest of us, or as Hegel says, evolved the Universe to come to self realization. The ancient Egyptians picked all the leaves of that tree, but it keeps sprouding new ones and yields apples in its season, because the Tree are Us.
Don't blame me, said Adam, it was 'the women thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat."
"And the Lord God said onto the women, What is this that thou hast done?" And the women said "don't blame me, you made me do it.'
Not to worry, us womenkind will take us home, I'm hell-bent on it. Amen
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 30, 2004 10:43:04 GMT -5
The First "Growl" Chapter 12 p 98 Concerning our strange psyche, Beelzebud tells Hassein a short story of a more recent occurance. It is about a man whose was by profession a 'writer' who existed peaceably in a large community. You must know, he says to Hassein, that in days of yore one could still run across beings of the profession of writing 'who still invented and wrote something really by themselves'. In the later epochs however, the writers among us prefer books writen by our very remote ancestors, fit it all together to make a new book. The principle cause for such books being written is because because for such books being written is because our reasoning is 'becoming more and more what the venerable Mullah Nassr Eddin calls 'stuff and nonesense'. He probably means we lost all common sense. The conemporay 'writer' B talks about 'was like all the rest there, and nothing particular in himself'. Thinking on what he should write next, he looked for some new 'idea' in his library, which all writers have, and a book called 'the Gospels', written by 'by certain persons called Matthew, Mark, Luke and John about Jesus Christ, a messenger from our ENDLESSNESS to that planet happened to fall into his hands'. This book is widely circulated among us, but we hardly do anything the messenger tought, or any other messenger for that matter. Suddenly, the idea of writing a Gospel himself entered his head, and then G says: "From investigation I had to make for quite different needs of mine", intimating that he is the writer of a new Gospel, he deliberated as to whether he was 'any worse than those ancient barbarians, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Johnnie?' He thought he was at least more "cultured" than the 4 of them ever were, and could "write a much better 'gospel' for my contemporaries." The writer of the new Gospel, the Constiturion, could also be Jefferson. Thinking some more, he realized that it was actually necessary to write such a "Gospel" because the English and Americans have a great weakness for this book, "and the rate of exchange of their pounds and dollars is 'not half bad' just now. "No sooner said than done", and wiseacred away at his new "Gospel." If "certain 'power-possessing' beings of that great community in which' the writer existed, hadn't just been 'having rotten luck at what is called 'roulette' and 'baccarat', and they therefore kept on demanding what they call 'money' from the ordinary beings of their community", this new Gospel would have simply "slipped into its niche in the libraries of the bibliomeniacs there, among the multitutes of other books exponding similar 'truths'. Because more and more money was demanded from the ordinary beings by the powers that were, the people "at length awoke from their usual what is called torpor and 'began to sit up", which in turn alarmed those in power, who from the safety of their homes took certain measures. They immediately destroyed "from of the face of the planet everything new arising in their native land, such as could possibly keep the ordinary beings of their community from resuming hibernation." But just then this new Gospel appeared, and the 'power-possessing beings' didn't like it at all because there were things in it which might not keep us from hibernating again, "got rid of both the writer himself and the 'Gospel'--because" having become experts in doing away with "native 'upstarts' who did not mind their own business." However, they could not get rid of this writer, "hemmed and hawed", and debated whether they should put him where "rats and lice breed", send him to "Timbuktu" etc., but finally decided to anathematize him and his "Gospel" publicly and punctiliously according to all the rules, and moreover with the same anathema with which no doubt they would have anathemized you also if they had learned how you insulted them." This writer sounds more and more like G himself. "And so, my boy, the strangeness of the psyche of the contemporary three-brained beings of this peculiar planet was revealed in the given instance in this, that when this writer and his 'Gospel' had been publicly anathematized with this 'anathema,' the result for him was, as the highly esteemed Mullah Nassr Eddin once again says: 'just roses, roses.' Imagin, I do have beside me 3 of the most beautiful salmon colored roses at the ideal state of unfolding, the leaves lush and equal in perfection, in a vase I brought from Egypt, and these are for Gurdjieff with love. In another, heavy crystal vase which can only hold one flower at the time, is a like rose I cut the day before, this one 's for you Cogga's. I'm inclined to say 'with love', but that might make you grumpy, and you won't show up at all. Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on May 1, 2004 9:00:20 GMT -5
End of the first "Groul" page 101
Because the 'power-possessing' beings of the community in which this writer lived made such a fuss about him, the ordinary beings bought not only his "gospel' but all the other books he had written before, and as usually happens with us, all other interests "gradually died down, and they talked and thought only of this writer."
Some praised him, others condemned him, and those in power also talked about him so much that his name spread to other communities and infected the beings there as well. Presently, though the "Gospel' has been forgotten, the writer name "is known almost everywhere as that of an 'exellent writer', anything he says we take as Gospel truth, and "look upon his writings with the same veneration with which the ancient Kalkians there listened to the predictions of their sacred 'Pythoness." Maybe it's Casey.
If you ask any being about this writer, he would know him and say how extraordinary he was, even though he never read a single book he wrote.
"All the same they would talk about him, discuss him, and of course splutteringly insist that he was a being with an 'extraordinay mind' and phenomenally well aquainted with the psyche of beings of the beings dwelling on the planet Earth."
Jung comes to mind also, and I have the pleasure of knowing at least three living beings, two personally, who are phenomenally aquainted with the psyche of man, but this writer methinks is G himself because it takes one to know himself to know all the rest.
Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on May 5, 2004 12:07:40 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, seems we are totally alone on this board, and DON is totally envolved with the re-migration from win/xp to win98. i hope, he will succeed without any loss of data, esp. his very own personal data ! it will be a real stressy but good solution !: entering the internet via a WIN/98-SE based PC is a very better and a much more secure (!) way ! but it needs a lot of time and some well analyzed and calculated data-savings and installational routines, including re-formatting/re-partitioning, and so on , to switch from XP to 98 (should be at least the SE ! ). guess, after some days ( next week ? ) we can hear and read again from DON the BARONE --- GREETINGS ! Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on May 6, 2004 9:28:54 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard, Yes, yes, I know all about computers, being a genius in the field I think the Baron is running for Prime Minister of Canada, so he doesn't have time for anything else. He told me he will make me the Secretary of State, Foreign Policy Advisor, World Security Ministress, and personal psychic, all at once. I have been reading as much as time permitted about the subject at hand, the Shasta People, Wilbur, and things we want to talk about, and will post some of it in the next days. Had to catch up with my personal life as well. Every time I come back from vacation it takes me weeks to catch up. Bis bald Charlotte
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