The Black Danube

[Charlotte]

The riddle of the disappearing Danube, still looking for a video in English.



All waters coming from the Black Forest disappear under the ground for at least 150 days of the year, the river bed is completely dry, after ca 12 km the waters come up again. No one yet knows where exactly the water flows, a puzzle to be solved "by generations".

[Charlotte]

The Mystery deepens.



Sitting here at this moment, says the Gentleman, the Danube flows under us toward and into the North Sea. Wait! The North Sea? We suspect large caverns, there must be large caverns, we dive and feel a draft from the left but can't find where the water goes. Our interest is to solve this fascinationg riddle.

Wikipedia may have a partial answer:

"The sinking Danube water disappears into a carst water system of the well-stratified limestone formation (the ox2 layer) of the White Jura and appears again in a horizontal limestone layer (the ki4 layer), approximately twelve kilometers away from Aachtopf. It then flows as Radolfzeller Aach into Lake Constance at Radolfzell. Thus, part of the Danube water also flows into the Rhine. This geographical situation is a striking feature of the large European Watershed, which seperates the catchment areas of the North Sea and the Black Sea."

Accordingly a vast geographical area. One researcher theorizes that it can be discerned from the wide and deep landscape that millions of years ago, the river was 100 times bigger than it is now, and that perhaps in 2000 years or so the upper Danube will be no more. Millions of years seems a bit far fetched, but when the Danube floods it does cover a vast area with water and extending to a sort of marsh.

For decades, Roland Berker has persued the phenomena of what happens after the Danube disappears completely. The work continued meter by meter, year after year, but a critical discovery eluded them. The motive to continue was simple: curiosity and researcher passion. The dug a shaft to find the river but came upon a dead end 40 meters down, but found a cravace and crawling through it, the man doing so said his pulse increased and inspiration grew. He was surprised to come upon a large, black cavern 35 meters down, called "the gray hall", but no Danube or hint where to look next.

Germany's largest Quelle, the Aach Quelle, 12 kn south of where the Danube disappears, issues 8000 liter per second, hier they look for a break in their search, the question being: does the Danube flow into the North Sea? My interest is in the great European Watershed, a catchment area between the North Sea and the Black Sea, maybe not millions of years ago, but anodazumal, long time ago, reminding me of "The Great Green".

So the Danube's waters flow through underground caverns to the Aach Quelle, where it emerges as the river Radolfzeller Aach, it being a tributary to the Rhine. All intriguing.

[Charlotte]

Just noticed "Balck" instead of 'Black' Danube

The map shows the Rhine and Danube a sort of L, the Rhine from Basel toward the North Sea, the Danube flowing eastward to the Black Sea. The rivers meet in Constance Lake sharing water, so to speak. West of Basel from the Black Forest and the southerly part of that Landscape within the L lies the mystery of the vast European Watershed. All quiet confusing.

www.germanyrivercruises.com/images/germany_river_map.gif

The video shows divers preparing to further investigate the flow of the waters. It is dangerous but exciting work as we advance to unknown territory and discover new things, says one diver. They encounter a narrow cravace and dive to 1 km under the mountain where the water meets them head on naking it almost impossible to advance. There are fish with eyes, although eyes aren't necessary in the environment, the researchers want to know if the fish were flushed into the sinkholes with the Danube's disappearance or come from the Rhine system in the Aach cavern.

They test if the water comes out at the Aach Quelle, yes it does, and as a small river meanders south through the wide landscape which formed about 16,000 years ago, issues into Lake Constance where it meets the underground Danube, mingles with waters of the Rhine and with it flows toward the North Sea. The divers have reached 10 meters deep hoping to find more of the underwater system by drilling a pathway. There are 50 million cubic of water so there have to be very large caverns between the Danube and Aach as indicated by large fields and wooded landscape. Here and there small opening show flowing water but cannot be explored.

[Don Barone]

All fixed

[Charlotte]

Noting my mistake, I thought 'where is Don when you need him?' THANKS DON, much appreciated, I trust all is good with you and family. Hope Canada doesn't have any plans to invade the US



When it rains profusely, says the Gentleman in the 3rd part of exploring the puzzle, the waters flood and seep into the fields, but the greater amount disappears earlier flowing toward the Aach Quelle.

An area of 250 quadrad km holds 50 million liters of water. Flowing through organic material about 6,500 cubic meter are loosed and forced out of the mountain, the sinkholes grow, repeatedly on the surface water collects spontaneously, forming creeks and disappear mysteriously in the mountain. One of these days the sinkholes will be so large as to swallow the Danube in these parts completely, thus it is important that the researchers solve the puzzle of the flow of the underground Danube soon. The Gray Hall the found is just the beginning, they can explore for ca 10 km, after this it is the work of many generations.

During work they heard strange sounds, detected the ground gave way as they espied 2 suspicious openings which was very exciting. One of the researchers lost his lamp, climbed down to retrieve it and found a lake. Not the goal, but an important milestone, perhaps the entrance to the largest watershed system in Germany.

The map in the video shows it is possible to dive 600 meters from the Aach river to Dolin, then there are 11km to the Danube. They explored only 1000 meters in 6 years under extreme dangerous condition, visibility being next to zero and it is easy to lose orientation, hence the rope. Many questions remain.

Millions of years the Danube flowed eastward, only since 300 years the river disappears completely for ca 150 days in a year between Immendingen and Möhringen. Perhaps in 1-2000 years the Danube will join the Rhine and flow to the North Sea, for now she returns in a few hours and reclaims her bed. Perhaps there is a great underground Sea, one researchers wish being to traverse it for many km in a boat with large caves where he can park and contemplate with awe this natural phenomena of the Black Danube.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danube_Sinkhole

[Charlotte]

Location of the Black Forest, Lake Constance, Danube and Rhine

media-3.web.britannica.com/eb-media/63/130063-004-904EA421.jpg

Wandering on the groud and diving with the researchers underground, I still don't have a good grasp of what was said. In the beginning of watching the videos, the fertile Danube and Carpatian Basins, information given by Absinthujone, the great European Migration, Armenia and Mt. Ararat, the Sea Peoples, and Plato's account of the island Atlantis which sank forming an impassable mud shoal discouraging travel to the ocean. Seemingly none of the information given by the German researchers is applicable to what I read about these things. I feel that there must be some connection, maybe I'm far off, so have to look further.

[Charlotte]

Cannot find a documentary explaining where the Danube and Rhine meet in Lake Constance, nor showing the actual flow of the Rhine through the lake. Meantime, the beautiful Garden Island of Mainau.

[Charlotte]

Been searching to find more pieces to this enormous puzzle, not of the Sinkholes per say, but of the landscape from the Black Forest to the Black Sea along the Danube, and Civilizations flourishing there anodazumal.

The area described in the 3 videos, including the Aach Quelle, Germany's largest, is west of Lake Constance into which all water coming from the Black Forest flow. The Danube continues eastward through valleys to Hungary where at Budapest it makes a sharp turn southward. This map shows no devision between the wide landscape which formed about 16,000 years ago, according to the German researchers, and Carpathian Basin. My brief inroads, ranging from the Great European Migration to the Sea People, to Mt. Ararat and Armenia, and some more, to now the Black Danube, suggest that our most recent past, perhaps 12- or 16,000 years ago can be found in the great Nations on this map.

d2ouvy59p0dg6k.cloudfront.net/img/original/map_danube_carpathian_1.jpg

According to the researchers, the deep and wide landscape which the Danube floods at times, indicates that millions of years ago the river was 100 times larger than it is now, that only since 300 years it disappears completely for ca 150 days in a year, and that in ca 1- 2000 years the Upper Danube will join the Rhine to the North Sea.

If millions of years ago the Danube was 100 times larger than now, it was sea-like, moreover, it is hard to imagine how such could actually flow instead of biding its time until conditions were favorable, and furthermore I have a problem with millions of years in which an entire continent can change geographically. Even the Priests of Sais reckon time only 800,000 years. Such are my thoughts.

Speaking of the Upper Danube being no more in ca 1- 2000 years, this map shows the devisions of the river. The Upper Danube ends at the Capital of Slovakia, Bratislava, roughly bordering Austria and Hungury. It may be no more because there is a dam every 16 km, it's not clear to me how it can join the Rhine to the North Sea as it flows eastward. I'm missing something here.

www.researchgate.net/profile/Adrian_Stanica/publication/284137102/figure/fig1/AS:297795132116994@1448011300663/Fig-1-The-Danube-River-Basin-identifying-four-river-sections-the-Upper-Middle-and.png

Here is a nice picture of the "Iron Gates", Pillars of Hercules, on the border of Serbia and Romania

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danube#/media/File:Evening_at_Danube_gorge.jpg

[Charlotte]

Found a partial answer to milions of years ago the Danube was 100 times greater than now, but the sea I was thinking about was not 50 million years ago, rather the time after the Great Flood.

This map shows the Swabian Jura, the Danube flowing north-east along the mountain range.

media-1.web.britannica.com/eb-media/63/130063-004-904EA421.jpg

"The geology of the Swabian Jura is mostly limestone which formed the seabed during the Jurassic period. The sea receded 50 million years ago. Three layers of different limestones are stacked over each other to form the range: Black Jurassic, Brown Jurassic, and White Jurassic. White Jurassic may be as pure as 99% calcium carbonate. Since limestone is soluble in water, rain seeps through cracks everywhere and forms subterranean rivers which flow through a large system of caves until they emerge. Thus there are hardly any rivers, lakes or other forms of surface water on the plateau.

"In some places, former volcanic activity has left traces, such as maars and hills. In the west, the Zollerngraben (a geological depression in a tectonically active region) sometimes causes mild eathquakes. The Nördlinger Ries is a large meteorite crater (15 million years old).

"Tertiary relics can be found at the southern part of Swabian Jura. Famous locations are known in the Ulm area (e.g., Turritellenplatte of Ermingen). -- Some millions of years ago, the mountains reached as far as Stuttgart."

Glad to learn about the crater.

Picture of the Nördlinger Ries crater, where in the 14th century "they" constructed a 2,7 km wall about with five gates and twelve Towers, the Church Tower was built from the seared stones, and within the poeple built their city which sustained very little damage during airstrikes in WWII. The meteorite penetrated several 100 meters into the earth, the explosion force several 100,000 grater than that of Hiroshima. Boulders were flung up to 70 km, nearby and about 100 km all life from Stuttgart to Munich ceased at once, The impact of the meteorite dramatically changed the then sub-tropical landscape of southern Germany. Eventually, the crater filled with poisonous saltwater which by the by seeped into the ground.

www.esslinger-zeitung.de/cms_media/module_img/93/46687_1_fullwide_13042012vvti13no.jpg

[Charlotte]

Read the entire first page of "The Mysterious Sea Peoples" with all my typos, to bridge that information with the "Black Danube". Don't know why the river is called black, perhaps because it springs in the Black Forest. I checked why the Forest is called 'black', the general explaination given is the thicket and color of the trees. I think of it as darkness/unknown which the Kuckuck, a palindrome, invites to look into or out of.

Kuckuck, calls from the woods



My aim in exploring all this is to get to Plato's Atlantis, writing that we "only remember a single deluge, but there were many previous ones; in the next place, you do not know that there formerly dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest of man which ever lived, and that, and that you and your whole city are descended from a small seed or remnant of them which survived." T find if this fair and noble race of man were pre-flood peoples who became known as the great Danube Civilizations no one knows the origin of for sure, of "Old Europe", which, according to Absinthujone flourished around 7,500 ago.

Also, the Egyptian Priests told Solon that Athena/Neith (wisdom), "founded your city a thousand years before ours ... of which the constitution is recorded in our sacred registers to be eight thousand years old." Suggesting that Athens is older than Sais, nor sure if Sais is meant. The Egyptians also knew of Armenia, the land where Heaven is held up by 4 pillars, so it would make sense that the Sea People invaded Egypt from the "North".

[Charlotte]

Difficult to find a beginning and an end to a subject which beginning and end belongs to undiscovered countries to us mortals. Most important is the fairest and noblest men that ever lived in days past, whose progeny we are.

Plato writes that "the country was inhabited in those days by various classes of citizens; -there were artisans, and there were husbandmen, and there was also a warrior class originally set apart by divine men. The latter dwelt by themselves, and had all things suitable for nurture and education, neither had any of them anything of their own, but they regarded all that they had as common property; nor did they claim to receive of the other citizens anything more than their necessary food. And they practiced all the perduits which we yesterday described as those of our imaginary guardians."

There was a land, above and below, which was "naturally adapted for wisdom and virtue" where those united in philosophy and art dwelled, "and there they implanted brave children of the soil, and put into their minds the order of government; their names are preserved, but their actions have disappeared by reason of the destruction of those who received the tradition, and the laps of ages."

And as today, there were survivors "ignorant of the art of writing, and had heard only the names of the chiefs of the land, but very little about their actions. The names they were willing enough to give to their children, but the virtues and the laws of their predecessors, they knew only by obscure traditions, and as they themselves and their children lacked for many generations the necessaries of life, they directed their attention to the supply of their wants, and of them they conversed, to the neglect of events that had happened in times long past; for mythology and the enquiry into antiquity are first introduced into cities when they began to have leisure, and when they see that the necessities of life have already been provided, but not before. And this is the reason why the names of the ancients have been preserved to us and not their actions."

[Charlotte]

The pre-flood peoples are generally called "Atlantians", probably so because of Plato's account. The Sage writes that we remember only one so the fairest and noblest race that ever lived can be survivers of other catastrophic events he notes. We know from various sources and records of "Old Europe" civilizations, which I touched upon in connection with the "Sea People" and the Danube being 100 times larger than it is now, possible covering the entire basin as shown on the map, I learned, relatively speaking, very little. The subject is as far as I can take at the moment as it betokens information and a time-span that "strains me past the compass of my wit".

Plato writes about zones and a bridge, "which was the sixth part of a stadium in width, they surrounded by a stone wall on every side, placing towers and gates on the bridges, where the sea passed in.

"The stone which was used in the work they quarried from underneath the center of the island, and from underneath the zones, on the outer as well as the inner side. One kind was white, another black, and a third red, and as they quarried, they at the same time hollowed out double docks, having roofs formed out of the native rock. Some of their buildings were simple, but in others they put together different stones, varying in color to please the eye, and to be a natrual source of delight.

"The entire circuit of the wall, which went round the outermost zone, they coated with a coating of brass, and the circuit of the next wall they coated with tin, and the third, which encompassed the citade, flashed with the red light of orichalcum."

Orichalcum, "which is now only a name and was then something more than a name - being more precious in those days than anything except gold."

Reading Critias, page 6, "the greatness of the kingdom and the glory of the temple", glisters through time.