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Post by Charlotte on Apr 3, 2006 8:55:09 GMT -5
Ben Jonson "The Knights of the Helmet" by Martin Pares. Francis Bacon, who, according to my friend and helper Simon Miles, (and Fern), wrote under the masks of Marlowe, Greene, Peele, Nashe, Kyd, as well as Shakespeare, but "that's not all" he says, "it's unbelievable", dedicated his work to Pallas Athena (for several reasons), her Helmet making them, and it, invisible, so to speak. Martin Pares writes: "There was one famous contemporar of Lord Bacon, a great and original writer himself, a man of moods and satire, seldom given to lavish praise of others, who acknowledged Bacon to be his 'chief.' This man was Benjamin Jonson. If ever there was a genius, full of surprises, it was Ben. He combined the strangest mixture of coarseness and delicacy. As a private soldier in the Low Countries he challenged and killed with his own hands a champion from the enemy camp; later he killed a fellow actor in a duel. He drank heavely at times, and it is not impossible that Will Shaksper' decease -- after that famous 'merry meeting' -- was the end of a similar feud. And yet Ben Jonsen could write, not only in Latin, not only ribald plays, but some of the loveliest lyrics such as the extravagant, 'Drink to me only with thine eyes.' " Indeed, he wrote with "shining ink", and the version of Shaksper's demise may simply be to a fib to eliminate this mask. In a "Discovery News Article", January 25, 2005, it is speculated that Shakespeare may have died of "Syphilis Treatment", inhaling mercury vapors, because he knew so much about "the malady of France," and that the reason his signature is so wobbly may be because he had Parkinson decease lol. It's like giving Akhenaton marfan syndrome to explain why he is depicted the way he is. But today I would concentrate on Ben Jonsen, repeat some of Mr. Pares' words, and echo Ben's lofty language to make the day worthy. Mr. Pares writes further: "In 1618, if not before, he (Ben) became closely acquainted with Bacon and by 1620 he was living with him at Gorhambury as one of the 'good pens that forsake me not.' " Archbishop Tenison in his 'Baconiana' 1679, p.60 testifies that Ben Jonson was Bacon's secritary. "Ben Jonson is generally cited as the principal witness of William Shakespeare, has now been called on behalf of Francis Bacon. His various utterances over the entire period when the Shakespeare plays were coming out are puzzling to say the least of it. "The eulogies in which he indulged in the first Shakespeare Folio were official, a kind of command performance. "Would that Ben Jonson if he could arise from his square foot of earth in Westminster Abby and tell us why his two greatest contemporaries never mentioned each other, for to him the answer was assuredly known. The mask-like cauntenance depicted in the First Folio is rejected by Ben Jonson with the plainest of hints. . . . 'Reader look, not on his picture but his book.' " To the Reader
This figure, that here seest put, It was for gentle Shakespeare cut; Wherin the Grauer had a strife with Nature, to out-doo the life: O, could he but haue drawne his wit As well in brasse, as he hath hit His face; the Print would then surpasse All, that vvas euer vvrit in brasse. But, since he cannot, Reader, looke Not on his Picture, but his Booke. B.I. Dominus Verulamius(Footnote 1: Francis Bacon, Lord Verulam) One, though he be excellent and the chief, is not to be imitated alone; for never no imitator ever grew up to his author; likeness is always on this side truth. Yet there happened in my time one noble speaker who was full of gravity in his speaking; his language, where he couls spare or pass by a jest, was nobly censorious. (1) No man ever spake more neatly, more presly, (2) more weightily, or suffered less emptyness, less idleness, in what he uttered. No member of his speach but consisted of his own graces. His hearers could not cough, or look aside from him, without loss. He commanded where he spoke, and had his judges angry and pleased at his devotion. (3) No man had their affections more in his power. The fear of every man that heard him was lest he should make an end. To such "most exquisite quality" of language I bow deeply, then and now. Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 3, 2006 9:54:59 GMT -5
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 4, 2006 13:11:22 GMT -5
Thanks Bernie, and also for your other post I will read through the links in my "spare" time, and together with information I have gathered already, maybe I can come to an opinion. Today, I have to get back to the "Discovery News Article" I touched upon yesterday, and which I read again compelling me to comment in order to compare and contrast how Shakespeare/Bacon is perceived above and below. Francis Bacon cannot really be discerned just above and below, because, observes Professor Saccio of Princeton University correctly: "He (Shakespeare) can write anything he wants, on a complex, multifaceted scale...Shakespeare is like that in his abundance and the complexity of his compositon. That is why there can be so many interpretations of his plays. So many good interpretations -- I don't mean the crackpot ones where people merely insert their own obsessions." By crackpots he refers to the Baconians, to which I belong, or perhaps the people in the following article. Pardon me. To each his own Web. Discovery News With all due respect, Dr. John Ross, of the Devision of Infectious Diseases at Caritas St. Elisabeth's Medical Center in Boston, spins a wild and imaginary web about why Shakespeare died, grasping his yarn from a sad perspective of the Bard. "Many historians and biographers," writes Jennifer Viegas of Discorey News, "have remarked upon William Shakespeare's surprising interest in sexually transmitted diseases, and now a stydy conducted by an infectious disease specialist concludes that the bard likely had syphilis and that mercury, used to treat the diease, could have poisoned the playwright and contributed to his death." Dr. Ross' theory could explain why Shakespeare withdrew from public life, and why he "experienced baldness at a relatively early age," and why he "could have had a Parkinson-like tremor later in life," and Dr. Ross "believes that the signature on Shakespeare's will suggests that the author had a tremor, which could have been a side effect of mercury vapor treatment of syphilis." Dr. Ross finds "four lines of evidence" supporting his theory, no wit., the prevalence of syphilis in Shakespeare's England; the bards interest in, and knowledge of STDs; documentation by and about Shakespeare, and his physical appearance. "Surviving hospital records indicate that English hospitals during the mid to late 16th century were flooded with syphilis patients. In 1579, one physician wrote that 75 percent of patients were being trated for 'the French pox,' a reference to syphilis. "Ross wrote that Shakespeare in his work variously called syphilis 'the pox,' 'the malady of France,' 'the infinate malady,' the incurable bone-ache,' the hoar leprosy,' and 'the good year,' which is a corruption of 'gaujere', a French term meaning prostitute." Dr. Ross thinks that Shakespeare referred with those terms to syhpilis, but the man is a Doctor, and one of "the infinite maladies" of man is looking obliquely at what he sees lest he sees what is there. It's a very effective mechanism of the ego to protect itself. "Shakespeare's contemporaries, like Christopher Marlowe, rarely mention syphilis or venerial diseases in their texts, (that's one clue) but Ross believes that many of Shakespeare's plays and sonnets contain one or more references to STDs. He counted 55 such lines in 'Measure for Measure,' 61 lines in 'Troilus and Cressida,' and 67 lines in Timon of Athens.' " Tell that to Fern and she'd sweep her hand across the sky and bring down thunder. Can anyone imagin??? 183 references to syphilis in the plays and sonnets, which others see as the most sublime literature of our recent past and today, in the gutter. Abject ignorance. "He (Dr. Ross) believes most of the references either describe aspects of the illness, as in the 'embossed sores' from act 2 scen 7 of "As You Like It,' or treatment for the diseases, particularly syphilis. "Shakespeare had a knowledge of syphilis that was clinically correct,' Ross told Discovery News." In Bacon was contractet all knowledge. Dr. Ross "explained that Shakespeare knew about such treatment in detail, such as hot baths and mercury vapor inhalation, probably because the playwright had syphilis. "The subject dredges up strong emotions in Shakespeare, and might explain his misogynistic description of women in his later works,' Ross said, and explained that men at that time often blamed women for sexually transmitted diseases." The role of women as being "bad" or inferior in not understood even in our day in the philosophical sense. "Shakespeare's contemporaries, such as law student John Manningham, wrote salacious anectodes about Shakespeare and his extramerital affairs with women, although Ross and many other scholars believe that several of the sonnets refer to Shakespeare's love for another man." The salacious affairs could be applied to Shagspur, minus the words: love for another man. These men are actually talking about Bacon but don't know it. In part, this confusion is derived from Bacon's essays on love, marrige, "marrige and the single life," friendship and beauty, "masculine love" in New Atlantis, and "Bacon's most particular friend," the good looking and charming Tobie, because "Tobie, while lodging with Bacon at York House, had grown very gay or rather gaudy in his attire, and noted for certain night walks to the Spanish Ambassador,' Tobie was the inspiration for one of Bacon's most famous essays, 'Of Friendship.' " If I could have lodged with Bacon in shack in the hills of T.J., I would have grown increasingly gay too, ecstatic even, and would have worn a sack cloth or whatever. According to "them" Anthony, Bacon's step brother, was gay too. Talk about projecting our contemporay mindset on past events. "They" look upon "a celestial bed", bring it down to earth "and prey on garbage." "The 17th century writer John Aubry commented on Shakespeare's apparent withdrawal from social life because the playwright was in 'pain' and was probably depressed. Ross explained that 85 percent of venereal disease patients suffer from depression and other psychological problems." Err, who wouldn't? "Ross further notes that Shakespeare, based on a Stratford bust likely derived from a death mask, appeared 'puffy' and bloated' at the end of his life, even though Ross believes that the bard should have looked dehydrated from the typhoid that probably killed him, as a typical epidemic ravaged in England at the time of Shakespeare's death." That's another clue to looke elsewhere, but here typhoid is added for good measure. Would that the scholars take off the bloated and puffy death mask to look behind and see Bacon. Also, there was "a hoary leprosy" at Elizabeth's splendid court which Bacon worked to set right. An emblem in the Wither Book shows the Queen taking of a beautiful mask, exposing an ugly face: Diformitie, within may bee Where outward Beauties we doe see The better News "Albert Braunmuller, a professor of English at the University of California at Los Angeles and expert on the works of Shakespeare, thinks it is possible Shakespeare had syphilis, but remains sceptical. "There is no historical authenticated documentation of what killed Shakespeare,' Braunmuller told Discovery News. '52 was a reasonable advanced age for his time and place, but not so old as to have been remarkable." Ohnonono, Jonson killed him with his pen. "Braunmuller added, 'Like virtually all of his contemporaries in the theatre and elsewhere, Shakespeare refers to the disease, or especially on its common effect -- hair loss, postules, etc. The argument that because Shakespeare mentions the disease he must have had it is illogical: he mentions dogs a lot but no one thinks he was a dog." YES!Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 5, 2006 8:24:30 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, a good sign, that You are not so familiar with this expression (acronym) RIP. You will find it often on tombstones, or in those sad statistics of the armies: R I P = Rest In Peace ! ---- but For You i have actually a total different wish: LIP -- LIVE (!!) IN PEACE ! ;D -- Best regards: Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 6, 2006 9:28:53 GMT -5
Thanks Bernhard, you too LIP. Obviously I don't visit cemeteries, huh. Don Barone's world famous Box Sir, I lack Advancement Hamlet At the of 15, Francis Bacon, having completed his education at Cambridge, . . . "so conscious of the defects of the academic system that he even refused a Degree. The seminaries of learning were stagnant pools; they were opposed to the advancement of knowledge" etc. "Later, he was to sum up the defects of the Universities in these words: "In the Universities they learn nothing but to believe; first to believe that others know that which they do not know. They are like a becalmed ship; they never move but by the wind of other men's breath, and have no oars of their own to steer withal . . . "The studies of men in such places are confined and pinned down to the writings of certain authors; from which if any man happens to differ, he is presently reprehended as a disturber and innovator." (Dodd) Francis writes that he found himself: amidst men of sharp and strong wits, abundance of leisure and small variety of reading, their wits being shut up in the Cells of a few Authors, chiefly Aristotle their Dictator, as their persons were shut up in the cells of Monasteries or Colleges; and knowing little history either of Nature or Time . . . out of no great quantity of matter do spin Cobwebs of Learning, admirable for the fineness . . . but of no substance or profit." (Advancement and learning) In Hamlet, Polonious, Cecil the elder, "can be played either for humor or a sinister old man," observes one commentator on Hamlet correctly, minus the humor though, is told by the Queen to use "more matter and less art." Shakespeare himself used more matter and less art. One Cobweb of Learning in our days I showed yesterday, but Charlotte the spider was never shut up in the Monasteries or Colleges, she "can think better when she is alone" according to E.B. White. And she spins her web in the darkness of night as spiders do. Wits beginning Having observed that "The Liquor of Knowledge" was not flowing in persuit of Truth, Francis "planned the great intellectual revolution", (Dodd) Fern's "most illustrious fraternal conspiracy", which he pursued secretly with his "particular" friends who became more "gay" with each day. Sir Nicholas Bacon, "whose wit was the marvel of his time", writes M.P. Hall, and whose residence was Gorhambury, were they held their learned discourse, and since Hamlet (Francis) and his childhood friend Horatio, (Anthony)also a "scholar", come from "Wittenberg"=the Hill of Wit", one can easely discern that Gorhambury was Wittenberg. Moreover, in Hamlet the king and queen sent a courier to Wittenberg to summon Hamlet's long time friends Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, the medieval Guild was know and represented at Gorhambury, so Wittenburg is also the "Hill of Wissen"=knowing and wisdom. Concerning those private meetings and discources, and the secret activity of Francis, Sir Nicholas Bacon warns him: "Beware! Use the invisible cloak of anonymity if you feel your lips must speak the language of your heart, lest it break." How, now . . . came the Natives of California to call the bear on their Flag "Coche" Two likely stories 1. "There are two accounts of "The Princely Pleasures of Kenilworth." (not gay ) Kenilworth was the Residence of the Ealr of Leicester, Francis' father, and was used to entertain the Queen. These accounts, "obviously from the same hand, by some person who signed himself 'Laneham' and 'Geo. Gascoige," which accounts were suppressed by Lord Burleigh. "The anonymous letter writer is jesting at the name of Bacon. He is 'Lean Ham,' i.e., Laneham. This idea of playing with words to convey othe meanings was quite characteristic of Francis Bacon's humour. Ordinarly, it would be very far-fetched, but these diamond words appear as punning in Shake-spear, and the very word 'Ham', with other words such as PIG, SOW, SHOAT, are given repeadedly in the Initial Capitals of Shake-spear texts usually with the message 'Bacon'. (Dodd) 2. "Pioneer John Bidwell recorded many of the events surrounding the 'Bear Flag revolt' and about the raising of the Bear Flag he" bids us well: "Another man left at Sonoma was William L. Todd who painted, on one peace of brown cotton, a yard and a half or so in lenght, with old red paint that he happened to find, what he intended to be the representation of a grizzly bear. This was raised to the top of the flag (and I salute) of the staff, some seventy feet from the ground. Native Californians looked up at it were heard to say 'Coche,' the common name among them for pig or shoat." I heard that too. The "other" man left "at" Sonoma was William L." He "painted" on very old brown information with whatever he could find, what he intended to be the representation of an old grizzly bear. Very clever but transparent wording and story to keep the design on the old Flag hidden, because on the old Flag of 1849, Hermes with alchemical symbols, a pig or shoat, not a bear, is on the shield of Athena. I don't know what the L. stands for, but since the disigner, "Major R.S. Garnett of the US Army", according to the records, knew about Hermes and alchemical symbols, he also knew how it comes that Bacon was the founding father of America, so maybe he knew about "Lean Ham", hence the L. The remarkable old Flag at the time of the "Bear Flag Revolt" was later held by the "Society of California Pioneers", distinct from the "Native Californians." It "perished in the Great Earthquake and Fire of 1906." It doesn't say where, maybe they "transported" it to San Francisco. There are more hints, such as "the animal depicted on the (current) flag, is not likely to be mistaken for a 'Coche'." Why point to it again? The star on the Flag "was taken from the lone star of Texas." It is a pentagram like on so many flags. I don't believe the old Flag with Hermes on the shield, and the SHOAT of Shakespeare/Bacon by Athena's side has perished. Somebody guards one, mayby Arnie , maybe he knows why Athena is on the Great Seal he governs. You never know who knows what. Charlotte PS The end sentence should read ... why Athena is on the Great Seal of the State he governs.
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 6, 2006 10:26:14 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte and Others, because we are touching this Shakespeare/Bacon field, i would like to ask, if you are familiar with a very new theory on the real identity of shakespeare, not only another one of so many well discussed theories, but a theory, offering some very interesting new ideas, AND, presenting some new discoveries or facts in context of this enigmatic fantastic author ! this theorie was elaborated/presented only a few years ago, by the german prof. dr. "Hildegard Hammerschmidt-Hummel" , i know, a "crazy" name for non-germans, but fort me a little bit amusing also ! and the lady behind this name is a very expert on this subject. she discovered some new backgrounds in the life of this Shakespeare, giving some evidence for a speculation, that "William" may be a member of a catholic (!) group of resistence ( german : "katholische Widerstandsgruppe" ) , or at least in close contact with such a group, possibly supporting and helping them. for example: this "Shakespeare" bought a special house at Blackfriars-monastery, together with some other partners. a multi-chambered complex house which was well suited or built, to hide (catholic) people there, who had been refugees, searched by the english ("protestantic") government ! for example catholic priests, fearing for their life, or possibly active catholic 8and scotish ?) "underground fighters". if this theses provides some rains of truth, a considerable part of the work of Shakespeare must be re-studied, re-analysed due to these very new aspects !! and: she ( Hildegard H-H ) discovered, that Shakespeare with several times at ROME , staying there in "hotels" under different (changing) names ! .... a very fascinating stuff ! -- best regards: Bernie
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 6, 2006 11:00:30 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, --- ADDENDUM -->> You may know some of Shakespeare's famous sonnetts !? several of them ( 127-154 , the last one ! ) he donated to the also enigmatic "DARK LADY" oh yes, Shakespeare's sonetts ! here is one of it (sonett 147) in german : ***************************************** Shakespeare und die "Dark Lady" . Wie Fieber ist mein Lieben, sich verzehrend Nach dem, was Fieberhitze steigern muß, Sich stets das giftge Naschwerk selbst gewährend, Die kranke Gier zu stillen im Genuß. Verstand, der meiner Liebe Arzt gewesen, Er ging, weil ich verachtet sein Gebot, Verzweifelnd fühl ich ´s, nie werd ich genesen, Kein Mittel hilft, Begierde ist der Tod. Verloren, da ich die Vernunft verlor, Und toll gemacht von wilder Unrast Qual, Denk´ ich und sprech´ ich wie ein irrer Tor, Sinnlose Worte, lügenhaft und schal; Und schwör auf deiner Schönheit lichte Pracht, Die schwarz wie Hölle, finster wie die Nacht. **************************************** isn'i it wonderful !? wow !! (btw.: reminds me of Shirley bassey's song "FEVER" ) -- many people now wondered who this woman was ! did she really lived or existed !?? and some years ago, this german academic lady ( Dr. Hildegard Hammerschmidt-Hummel ) published a study, providing an interesting thesis ! yes, this "dark lady" lived at that times !!! hildegard's analysis points to : Elizabeth Vernon, Countess of Southampton, wife of Sir Henry Wriothesley, Earl of Essex !! and we have a paintings of this very attractive lady , on the picture named the "persian lady", due to her "outfit" ( at this time she was pregnant as well ), combined with a new discovered sonett of Shakespeare in german AND english : ***************************** The restless swallow fits my restles minde, In still revivinge still renewinge wronges; her Just complaintes of cruelty vnkinde, are all the Musique, that my life prolonges. With pensive thoughtes my weeping Stagg I crowne whose Melancholy teares my cares Expresse; hes Teares in sylence, and my sighes vnknowne are all the physicke that my harme redresse. My onely hope was in this goodly tree, which I did plant in love bring vp in care; but all in vaine, for now to[o] late I see the shales be mine, the kernels others are. My Musique may be plaintes, my physique teares if this be all the fruite my love tree beares ************************************ so plaese look HERE at : www.lebensraeume-var.de/darklady/bildnis.html reading and feeling this (new) sonett: that's culture ! incredible --- aarrghhh: fire on this rap & techno dumbness -- i do hate this sh.t ( IMH, sorry Folks) ---- Best regards: Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 7, 2006 8:25:39 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard, "Fire on this rap & techno dumbness" now you know why I'm always drawn back to Mt. Parnassus, but as you know technology very important in many ways, this is why Bacon "invented" science. The world is mundane without philosophy and poetry, to which poetry all science must be referred, says Shelley, but he has many steps in between. Poets are in touch with That. Now to Hildegard, not from Bingen , with all due respect, the lady Hammerschmidt uses a lead hammer to pound gold, methinks. I didn't get into the German site because what you say gave me a good picture of her interpretation of her view. I saw the "Persian" lady, also known as the "Turkish" lady, probably because of her "hat", before, and from the looks of her I thought it is the pregnant Queen herself with her red curly hair typically beginning way back on her forehead. Look at portraits and compare. The Baconian Francis Carr, who describes the women in the painting as stately, her gown being covered with Tudor roses etc., agrees. The ring on the ribbon around her neck may well hint at the famous ring she gave to her favorite son, The Earl of Essex, who finally betrayed her. The poem applies to Francis and the Queen. I compaired the lady again with other paintings of the Queen, and again see the Queen hiding Tudor under her gown As to the "very expert" in Shakespearian matters, Hildegard H.H., who thinks that "William" may have been a member of a Catholic resistance group: he was of a resistance group but not Catholic, rather, Bacon and his "group" resisted not only many "Lords" or advisers of the Queen, but the outlived and stagnent established order, as I wrote yesterday. Francis was neither Catholic nor Prodestant, rejected orthodoxy, but was a deeply religious man after another manner. According to Hildegard H.H., in your words, "this Shakespeare bought a special house at Blackfriars - monastery, together with some other partners. a multi-chambered complex house which was well suited or built, to hide (catholic) people there, who had been refugees, searched by the english (protestantic) government! for example catholic priests, fearing for their life, or possibly active catholic or scottish ?) 'underground fighters'." Bacon and his "group" were "underground fighters", as I touched upon in my post yesterday, they all feared for their lives because of the Queen and her ministers, it has nothing to do with hiding Catholic, Protestant, or Scottish people ot priests. It is this interpretation which is incredible, more so than what the Oxfordians and commentators on the life and works of Shakespeare and Bacon come up with. I will post tomorrow some interpretation on this. Also the mysterious "Dark Lady." Shakespeare in "hotels" in "Rome" It was Francis and his step brother Anthony who sojourned on the continent, Anthony for a decade or so apropos political matters, that is why Horatio=Anthony speaks with an Italian accent. Mysterious "Persian Lady", "Turkish Lady", that is really looking way away from the obvious. In my looking at portraits of the Queen yesterday, I found the "Laneham" again in Peter Dawkins "Arcadia." He writes that the word "lane" is "a variant of the word "lone", and suggests, "by inference 'Bacon,' that he refers to the Queen an "alone" Queen", but "here Francis appears to us it for himself, both because he is the heir to the throne by birth and also because of his "virginity" (purity) and excellence, which sets him apart from others." I agree that he used "lone" for himself but disagree with the reasoning. Francis is set apart from others because he was and is the brilliant star in heaven, the "lone" star of Texas on the California Flag. This lone star of Texas was always too far fetched for my thinking, but look at the avenues through which such things are cleared up. Thanks Bernie! Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 7, 2006 8:53:51 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, fine, i see You are well informed. but i have to admit, that is was a summary of my own, in my own words, concerning the new theories by Hildegard H-H, risking some mistakes, if regarding this try of summation to be correct in all details. next week i can provide more details, giving a good evidence that it was not only Francis Bacon who visited ROME, no, William S. did so as well: interestingly he signed ( at his rome hospiz ) with "SHFORDUS" = SH-(akesspeare) + stratFORDUS (stratford on avon ) --- the hospiz itself is also of importance .... ( a pragnant Queen ) ... to be continuated !! till next week : Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 11, 2006 9:17:37 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard,
I read the article in which Ms. Hummel theorizes concerning the "Persian Lady," or "Dark Lady," so called because she cannot be identified.
Ms. Hummel categorically states that the "Persian Lady" is Elizabeth Vernon, a high standing Dame at the court of Elizabeth I, who in rank stood almost next to the Queen herself. In her studies, H. (short for Hummel) tried to sort things out, and formed this opinion from the painting in question, who is not the Dark Lady.
H. states that Shakespeare addresses three personages in his sonnets, the third, "a friend" im Bunde. The "bonds." This friend, H. theorized, was the lover and later husband of the Dark Lady Vernon, Sir Henry Wriothesly, later become Earl of Essex, who was once a friend and benefactor or patron of Shakespeare. Because of the consequences of this relationship a child was "geauted", owing to the painters sympathy for the poet who, Shakesspeare seemed to have followed the events at court. Arghh.
Bunde are the "bonds" of "Bacon's Secret Societies" as discovered in 1888 to 1895 by Mrs. Henry M. Pott in a manuscript in Bacon's handwriting, in the British Museum. The three closest in this bond were Francis, Robert Devereux, later Earl of Essex, second son of Elizabeth and Leicester, and Francis' blood brother, and Anthony Bacon, son of Sir Nicholas and Lady Ann Bacon.
Most writers are on this bandwagon of total confusion which will never clear up until Bacon is acknowledged as Shakespeare. H. has the Essex' confused. Madam Deventer writes:
"On March 4, 1572, the Queen elevated Walter Devereux Lord Herford to the Earldom of Essex. And in the genealogical register of the 16th Century this Robert is not entered as the eldest son until afterthe Earldom of Essex had been conferred upon his reputed father. As heir of this title he (Francis' brother Robert) was then put forward as the legitimate son of the Essex couple."
Francis was "adopted" by the Bacon's, and Robert by the Devereux', as the Queen expressly wished not to have an heir to the Tudor Throne.
H. theorizes that both Lord Wriothlesly and Shakespeare loved Elizabeth Vernon, the "Dark Lady," hence they were rivals. Nigel Davis simply has a "Rival Poet" as one of the three in the "bonds." H. thinks that the frienship ofLord Wriothlesly and Shakespeare was apparently broken forever due to this rivalry and Shakespeare himself never got over the seperation from the "Dark Lady" Vernon, as he hoped for a continuing relationship and the eventuality of more children because his son Hamnet died when he, Shakespeare, was still alive and his wife couldn't have any more children.
H. guesses that the personal and intimate relationships discerned in the sonnets coming out openly was very painful for the poet and Vernon, and also, the reason that Shakespeare, at a certain poin in his life, openly formed what H. now calls not "Bunde" but "Gedichtband," Society of Poets, testifies to the fact that in his innermost being he never completely overcame his seperation from the "Dark Lady." Moreover, Shakespeare, by forming this Society of Poets, probably wanted to retaliate with a well targeted blow at his rival Wriothlesly.
Now I ask you, is this a riotfully, absolutely incredible yarn spun? It has Bacon written all over it if you know the Elizabethan Court more closely.
With the following, H. makes more sense: it is no wonder that the Earl of Essex seemed always dissatisfied with his later political successes, (ja, that's our Robert) however, H. surmises, this could have been his natural disposition, and that he who goes along with conspiring against the Queen is probably not an ordinary person with a happy disposition. The Earl of Essex, says H., is depicted with a sort of gloomy tension, but this could have other reasons, i.e., his disappointment of the to him familiar situation.
Well yes, was Robert familiar with the court, didn't like what he saw, was ambitious and eager to change things to the point of setting himself on the throne.
No doubt H. is talking about the Elizabethan Court, Shakespeare and his Society of Poets being Bacon. She coudn't mean the actor Shagsper, whose children, conceded even by non Baconians, were illiterate.
The writer of the article on the theories of H. concludes, that H. does not write much of the consequences of these relationships, in particular Elizabeth Vernon, who seemed often undecided pertaining her actions, and herself a wavering personality. A fascinating lady of learning who appears to have distinguished herself in the field of music as well.
This, of course, pertains to the Queen, who was wavering and undecided concerning what to do about Francis and Robert, her children, but never wavering in her decisions conserning the State.
I conclude that H. is writing about the Queen, Francis, and his brother Robert, Earl of Essex the younger, but projests her view onto certain people, hence the confusion and absurdities most commentators are emired in.
The poem on the painting of the "Persian Lady", is indicative of her being the Queen, and the restless, melancholy swallow is Francis himself. The why tomorrow.
Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 11, 2006 10:16:18 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, ... such an interesting and fascinating topic ! -- unfortunately "they" do stress me here till the last minutes before Eastern ("Ostern"). and such a theme needs a lot of time to read, study, not to forget making my own thoughts on this as well. well, i gathered some material, printed it out, beside the well appreciated response from You, and i do hope having more time to enjoy it, reading it within the next week ! for the moment: if i interprete or understand You quite well, dear Lotte, You do not believe, that "william shakespeare" ,from Stratford on Avon , is the real author of this worldfamous "shakespeare"-literature ? -- thanks for the momemt ! ( yor favorite: Edward de Vere or Francis Bacon ? ) -- be so kind to accept some delay concerning my fuerther replies ! -- best regards and happy eastern = "Fröhliche Ostern" ! ciao: Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 12, 2006 9:31:13 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard, I know "they" overstress you constantly, no problem, I'm doing this mostly because of my major irritation with the interpretations of commentators, and my great love for Francis Bacon. Wilbur This subject is very time consuming, to say the least, and it takes many years and information from many sources, pro and con, to understand why behind the "bloated and puffy" mask of Shakespeare at Avon is Francis Bacon. Again, according to Ms. Hummel, the "Dark Lady" in the painting by Gheeraerts the younger, is the hitherto unknown Elizabeth Vernon. Shakespeare addresses her at times affectionately, beseechingly, other times judgingly and with anger. Francis loved his mother the Queen, complained in so many subtle ways about the intrigues, murders, overt and covert relationships, the cause of his brothers Earl of Essex revolts against the Queen etc., and his disinheritance of the crown, all the while spending his life in the service of her Majesty, and the State. Though the lady is pregnant, which should be cause for happiness, H. says, she is surrounded by symbols of melancholy and sadness. Why would a tree, a stag adorned with a crown touched by pearls on the arm of the Queen, a ring round her neck, and one on her thumb be symbols of melancholy? Perhaps H. came to this opinion because of the poem, which is the clue to who the poet and the lady is. This painting was hidden away at Hampton Court and when it was first displayed, after the death of Elizabeth, it was labeled "Queen Elizabeth" and later changed to "Portrait of a Women." (Francis Carr) "In the upper left-hand corner of this large, full-size portrait," he writes, "are ten words in Latin." Translated A just complaint to the unjust mine thus to me grief is the medecine for help. In the poem, the restless mind of a swallow is Francis' own, ever riviving and bringing up the wrongs he lives with, and justly complains of cruelties unkind by the Queen and other at court, which is the sad song of his life. His introspective thoughts crown the stag, whose tears express silently his melancholy and cares, his unknown sigh's are the only physical expression with which he redresses the harm coming to him and his friends. Remember, Hamlet says: "There is something rotten in the State . . . Oh, cursed spite, that ever I was born to set it right." The second part of the poem is not a very good translation into German. Nowhere in the English version is mentioned that the poet dwells like the stag in the wilderness, and "physicke" is interpreted as "Elixier," which heals all wounds, and one time "physicke" is interpreted as "Medicine." This must be taken from the top line, i.e., "grief is the medicine for help." In the third paragraph, the poet says that his hope was in the goodly tree, which I did plant in love bring up in care; but all in vaine, for now to (o) late I see the shales be mine, the kernels others are. Lord Bacon planted A spreading Tree Full frought with various Fruits most fresh and fair To make succeeding times more rich and rare. Writing in secret and behind the mask of Shakspur, and other personages, Francis knew that he will be denied the kernels and left with the shales, as is blatantly obvious in our time. Nowhere is mentioned that Shakspur plant a tree of knowledge for posterity. My Musique may be plaintes, my physique teares If this be all the fruite my love bears. His music may be plain, plaintive, complaints, and his tears will be apparent physically if his tree planted in love bears not the fair fruits of knowledge he grafted on it. His love's labors would be lost. Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 13, 2006 9:24:20 GMT -5
Hurry up Bernhard, it's Thursday aleady! To say that nowhere is it written that the actor Shaksper planted a tree is simplistic of the following. How can the Stratford actor be credited with the Plays? Exhaustive investigations of his life have been done by opposing camps of the Shakespeare Bacon controversy, which produced a history that can be read in all but 10 minutes. The tree of shales and kernels in the painting not only betokens Francis' relationship with the Queen, but also the tree of knowledge of Lord Bacon. The actor had not the wherewithal to plant and grow such a one to make succeeding times more rich and rare. Ignatius Donnely: "It has justly been said, that the Plays could not have been written without a library, and cannot today be read without one. To their proper elucidation the learning of the whole world is necessary." The absurdity of interpreters of the Sonnets Nigel Davis critiques sonnet 150, the theme of which, he thinks, is "Unworthy Love," and the content: "A superficialyy simple sonnet that reveals great complexity and meaning once the central theme of the author's mistress being a whore is established." As a man thinketh so it is with him. Sonnet O, from what 'power' hast thou this 'power'ful might with insufficience my heart to sway, To make me give the lie to my true sight And swear that brightness doth not grace the day? The O, power, power-ful, to make me give the lie to my true sight, and swear, means for Nigel: 1. "O (being a regular pun by Shakespeare on female genitalia) forgrounds the sexual nature of this sonnet. 2. power contains an almost complete anagram of "whore" alluding to the power such a person has over the author. 3. swear may also allude to "whore", more so in the Quarto spelling: s-were. 4. To make me give the lie to my true sight alludes again to the Dark Lady whom the author sees as beautiful but others do not." Truly, the man is whoring, and on a tour de power if his own simple superficiality. Sonnet Whence hast thou this becoming of things ill, That in the very refuse of thy deeds There is such strenght and warranties of skill That in my mind thy worst all best exceeds? Nigel the punner 1. this becoming of all things ill indicates the subject is again the Dark Lady who is "not counted fair" by others. 2. thy deeds refers to what the mistress does that causes others to think less of her. What it is she does is most revealed in the next quatrain. 3. skill alludes to the women's proficiency in her occupation which causes the author to regard her worst as better than other' best: she is an expert in the worlds oldest profession. 4. worst again alludes to "whore" as does warrantise and Whence." Sonnet Who taught thee how to make me love thee more The more I hear and see just cause of hate? O, though I love what others do abhor, With others thou shouldst not abhor my state. Nigel 1. thee more is immediately followed by the different but phonetically identicalThe more. 2. This quatrain strongly alludes to the Dark Lady being a prostitute, as has been alluded to in the sonnets. 3. The word abhor puns on the word "whore" and in line 11 appeals for the mistress not to whore with others because he loves her. 4. In line 12 the second abhor again puns on "whore" and appeals for her not to reduce his status with her whoring. 5. Who again alludes to "whore", as might how. 6. The first line of this quatrain in fact starts with Who and ends with reaffirming the quatrain being literally enveloped by the word Whore. 7. The last line in this quatrain also has the word Whore running right thrue it: With others thou shouldst not abhor my state. 8. The central issue of "whoring" is further reinforced via assonance by more giving every line a phonetic beat driving home the issue: "more...more...abhor...abhor. 9. hear also alludes to "whore." (hough) 10. others contains the anagram of "hore" which again alludes to the womens whoring. 11. O intensifies the sexual nature of this quatrain as in Q1. Sonnet If they unworthiness raised love in me, More worthy I to be beloved of thee. Nigel 1. The worst of Q2 and the references to whoring in Q3 now morph to unworthiness and worthy in the couplet , both containing anagrams of "whore" as well as assonance with whore via wor. 2. The mistress's unworthyness makes the author worthy as though the original worth of the women transfers to the author as she degrades herself through whoring, in effect the author needs the women. 3. raised love describes graphic sexual arousel in the author as well as romance." I mean !!!!!!!!!!!!! Now you know what Nigel is on about, and Jung's shadow projection. The key words of all this whoring, or all he thinks relates to the word "Whore", are in in blue, the sonnets in red, the rest in black, but I dont have time to bother changing back and forth. But it gets worse, "worse" may also be an anagram for "whore", I say, or did he say it. In another commentary he comes to the "conclusion" and is "absolutely convinced that the Dark Lady was a negro women - a black women who was also a whore." There is a Rose in Spanish Harlem . . . Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 13, 2006 9:49:21 GMT -5
DEAR CHARLOTTE, You are really a GOOD GIRL ! ( bayr.: a saubers diandl ) ! nobody here make such efforts to establish and maintain an interesting deepgoing conversation ! --- till this late afternoon i was fully occupied with a lot of complex work and control, disturbed by some additional interactions, some of them simply stressing, to finish the preparations (on my side) for several new computer-based production runs/races ( new application programs and data-structures ) , starting next week on tuesday ! -- that's why i can now only printout Your well appreciated contributions, taking it with me, reading it if time is available, may be still this evening !! ----- as you said, it's a very complex stuff, scholars are working over years on it, so it is not possible to get a reliable overview or summary on this vast controversial multifacetted subject: the authorship of "shakespeare"#s work --- the productive and creative man behind him, or are we looking for phantome, and there is no man behind him (william), only the shadow of himself !? ths no need for Francis bacon, Edward de Vere, Christopher Marlowe, Elizabeth-I .. and so on ! interestingly the authorship and/or identity of Shakespeare was not disputed or subject of suspicion by the peoples of his time !? the question for his authorship came with some delay, was a more modern "invention", dating back to 18./19. century ? or ! as i would see it now, from my humble point of view, with few background on this ! --- OK ! so far for today !! NOW I WISH YOU, and all Others here ( DON & Co ) a very HAPPY EASTER -- some nice days of joy and relax, some hours of selfreflection as well, and time for studying and feeling the wonders of the Springtime ! -- best regards: Bernie
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 18, 2006 9:55:41 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard,
Sorry, I forgot to wish you a good Ostern, but hope you had a well deserved rest. A really good girl, saubers diandl, naa, I'm fantastic! Humor me. Actually, the effort on the subjet here I make is a sort of waking up all the animals in the barn of Zuckerman, and to make Wilbur jump for joy again.
Concerning the Shakespeare Bacon controversy, did you read my posts on this forum "William Shakespeare?" The second printed in the Rosicrucian Fellowship Magazine? It is said that Francis Bacon was the Founder of said Fellowship, his story, and he himself are bigger than we can imagin even at this moment.
The authorship of the Plays and Sonnets could not have been disputed when Shakespeare was still alive because Francis released his work mainly under the this name for reasons touched upon in previous posts. Bacon's private life and work, and what transpired at Elizabeth's Court was not known to the public. Then, Bacon laid foundations for "eternity", and secreted his work on purpose. The shadow behind the man is really the actor Shagsper, the ghost under the stage.
Scholars and "very experts" have been trying for 250 years to glean what's in a name, but most of them, and I think I have shown the worst of interpretations last week, are like Goodman Dull, much worse than "the unperceiving multitude," who have more common sense in their little toe than the former have in their entire brain. The Dull's speak many words but understand none neither. It is they who are chasing a phantom.
When Hamlet refers to "the election," Goodman Dull explains at lenght the protocol of a new king being chosen for Denmark at the time of Shakespeare.
When Hamlet questions Rosencrantz and Gildenstern, "two commen Danish surnames" for Dull, Hamlet asks "by the rites of our fellowship," Dull assures his"high school and college students, or anyone else," that in his college they had nearly the same formula in his own college fraternity. Not by a longest shot to the kuiper belt.
When Hamlet recollects a time when the world was a happier place, and reviewing the accomplishments of the human race then gladdens his heart, and laments that now all seems the "quintessence of dust," Dull informs his students and us what that means: "Anyone who's experienced depression knows the feeling of 'Quintessence' ('fifth essence'; compare Bruce Willis's 'Fifth Element') was an idea of prescientific thought -- a mystical substance that made fire, air, water, and the earth work together, and supposedly what planets and stars are made of."
Ach du lieber Gott, did he really say that? Yes he did. His comment on the "mostly passive" Ophelia: "People who go on to become schizophrenic are often quite, passive people ('schizoid'). Shakespeare probably noticed this." (This Dull here is also a doctor) When Hamlet suggests Ophelia could enter a convent or "nunnery," Dull challenges his students to decide for themselves if this may not be "Hamlet's double meaning for whorehouse." Can't get out of the gutter, our Lords of Ignoramuship.
T.S. Eliot, when asked whether the madness of Hamlet is real or feigned, replied "is the madness of Hamlet's critics real or feigned?" That answer, says Dull, summed "it up for me." Whatever that means.
Lord Bacon
"For my name and memory, I leave it, to man's charitable speeches and to foreign nations, and to the next ages."
To foreign nations and the next ages! That's us. Even the shisha smoking monad in the middle of nowhere in the desert of Egypt has heard of Shakespeare, I watched Hamlet in Egypt, and the Plays are performed in the Middle East, though the people complain of having a hard time understanding Shakespeare and wish the there were better translations. Well, they have to learn Klingon.
Although we have relatively little information, becuse there isn't much, on "the mundane life" of Shaxpere, as his name is recorded on his marriage document to Anne Hathway, Nov. 27th 1582, we have a tremendous overview of Shakespeare/Bacon.
"Shakespeare is the Lord of those who see," but we ask and ask and he smiles "Outtoping Knowledge." No one ever claimed that the actor from Stratford out-topped knowledge. What does it mean: Shakespeare's true birthday is a mystery, and that he was born on the same day of the month he died? In 1592, Robert Greene declared in his deathbed autobiography:
"There is an upstart crow, beautiful with our feathers, that with his Tygers heart wrapped in a Players hide supposes he is as well able to bombast out a blank verse as the best of you; and, being an absolute Johannes Factotum is in his own conceit the only Shake-scene in a country."
On the emblem in my first posts irrk on "Francis Bacon and Charlotte's Web", which can no longer be seen due to Don's computer crash, Shakspur is shown "beautiful with our feathers" being pushed down the mountain by Fern, lets say. The best of you means Bacon's "Friends", Ben Jonson et all.
". . . our vizards wee will change . . . to mask our noted outward garment." Henry IV
Frank Woodward:
"Bacon knew, that in every work he had published under another name, Cipher signatures were placed that could never be removed, and some day would be discoverd. How wonderful were the methods he employed, which would in due time, reveal the truth."
Inscription on the Shakespeare Munument at Statford
Stay Passenger, why goest thou by so fast? Read if thou canst whom envious death hath plas't w'in this monument Shakespeare with whom Quick nature dyed, whose name doth deck the tombe Far more than cost, Lith all that he hath writ Leaves living art but page to serve his wit.
Leaves living art, but page to serve his wit! Envious death, perhaps not only Bacon's works are immortal . . .
Our Dark Lady and the Sonnets
Alfred Dodd writes a beautiful sentence:
"The 'Living Art' which distinguishes these Personal Poems consists of this: That Francis Bacon chose his words with such precision that they enfolded, according to a definite rule and plan, the actual motifthat called the Sonnet into being." Among the few man speaking thusly are two other, anonymous poets after Francis.
If it was possible, it seems to me at times, that Mr. Dodd, in his dramatic style of expression, is more enamored with Francis than I am "in perpetual sympathy" with the Prince of Poets." Can I say that? Dodd ascribes at least some of the Sonnets to Bacon's first love and "soul mate," Marguerite of Navarre, but this cannot be reconceiled in light of Sonnet 144 as regards the Dark Lady.
Two lovers I have of comfort and despair Which like two spirits do suggest me still: The better angel is a man, right fair The worser spirit a women of coloured ill . . . I have sworn thee fair and thought thee bright Who art as black as hell, as dark as night.
"Marguerite of Valois had been married to King Henry of Navarre for reasons of State. Though her beauty had inspired all the Frensh poets and litterateurs," Henry passionately loved his mistress, the Baroness de Sauve. "Marguerite of Navarre was, however, the unrecognized leader of the Court in ways and manner, especially on her social and intellectual side. Her jounced behaviour, her gallant attire, her rich beauty, the snowy whiteness of her complexion, her crow-black hair . . ."
And, writes Dodd, when Francis is (was) alone, "his thoughts run riot about her appearance, her eyes, her dress - from which we know that Marguerite was a brunette, dark complexion, dark eyes, full and round, more glorious than the 'Morning sun of heaven ot the Star tha ushers in the Even.' Her dress suited her eyes that looked upon him like 'Loving Mourners'. And so the poet 'Swears Beauty herself is Black, and all the Foul that thy complexion lack'. And from the secret messege in the poem we learn that the emotions which called it into being was 'King Henry's Ball', which had lasted until the early hours of the morning when the lovers had welcomed together the dawn and the rising sun. 'Hush! We see the East . . . Farewell!
"It is a fact in history that about this time Queen Marguerite created a sensation at a State Ball by appearing in a wonderful black gown, which matched her black eyes, eyebrows, and complexion."
All this even confuses me as it seems to be somewhat forced "together in the Even." Among other things, Marguerite cannot be a brunette and have crow-black hair, her complexion cannot be of snowy whiteness and of dark complexion.
In describing Margurite, Dodd relates the words of Brantome:
"To speak of the beauty of this rare Princess: I believe that all those who are, will be, or ever have been, will be plain beside it and cannot have beauty . . . No Goddess was ever seen more beautiful . . . To suitably proclaim her charms, merits, virtues, God must lengthen the earth and heighten the sky, since space . . . is lacking for the flight of her perfection and renown."
Yes, but was Brantome adulating Marguerite? Remids me of Shakespeare's Cleopatra, in which "the air, but for vacancy, had gone to gaze on Cleopatra too, And left a gap in nature."
Marguerite may have been "brilliantly clever with almost a touch of genius, a superp conversationalist, possessed high literary gifts and a wide range of knowledge, her intellect only equaled by her charms," and furthermore lauded by Dodd as all that and heaven too, she is not the Dark Lady immotalized by Bacon in the Sonnets.
Have a Lith day!
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 21, 2006 9:03:33 GMT -5
Sonnets to Marguerite of Navarro? According to Mr. Dodd, Francis addresses Marguerite: "Some Glory in their Birth, some in their SKILL, WEALTH, BODIES' FORCE, GARMENTS, HAWKS, HOUNDS, or an adjacent Pleasure wherein it finds a joy above the rest. But these particulars are not my measure, all these I better on one general Best. Thy Love is Better than THAN HIGH BIRTH TO ME. And having The of all Men's Pride I boast, and me most wretched make. But do thy worst to steal away for Term of Life thou art assured mine, and my Life no longer than thy Love will stay for it depends upon that Love of Thine. O what Happy Title do I find, Happy to have thy Love. Happy to die." One could write a book on this paragraph alone. "He knows too, all unclean things that go on in the Court. and so he begs her to take care. 'Heaven in thy creation did decree that in thy face sweet love should ever dwell. How like Eve's Apple doth thy Beauty grow, if thy sweet virtue answers not the show'. He continues his warning notes, and shows that he is not blind to her frailties." How sweet and Lovely dost thou make the Shame, Which like a Cancer in the Fregrant Rose Doth spot thy Beauty of thy Budding name! O, in what Sweets dost thou thy Sins enclose! The Tongue that tells the Story of they Days Making lascivious comment on thy Sport Cannot dispraise but in a kind of praise. This and other Sonnets is where all the sexual innuendo of our experts comes from. The foul tongue that tells the story of her days makes lalascivious comments on her Sport, prostitution, they think, but in all their bad reviews there is somehow a praise for the women of coloured ill. The author sees beauty in the Dark Lady where others don't, remarks Nigel, who sees nothing but anagrams for "whore" in the poems. I think that even Mr. Dodd doesn't understand this aright. Francis composes his Sonnets on a much "higher" level and in the "tongue that tells the Story of her Days." Long time ago. He is addressing Nature herself, and the nature of women, Eve, who encloses her Sweets in Sins. He has two spirits which "suggest" him, "the better one a man, right fair", the Spirit of Life itself, and the Dark Lady the undiscovered and concealed light of Nature, which is his, and which means more than High Birth to him. He boasts of having discovered it but it makes him most wretched, because he was born to set things right. When spirit mingles with nature she shines, says Hermes. "Heaven in thy creation did decree that in thy face sweet love should always dwell. How like Eve's Apple doth thy Beauty grow, if they sweet Virtue answers not the show." What majestic language: sweet virtue is to be found in Eve's Apple. No matter what men say, they cannot dispraise her but with a praise. So to speak, Adam was an Androgen and his feminity materialized in "wicked" Eve whose Ebenbild was the virtuous Athena, visible in "The Order of the Helmet." Both, Queen Elizabeth and Queen Marguerite were Dark Ladies for Francis in their respective ways, but his Sovereign Lady was "Crowned Truth." It is good to remember Professor Saccio's words, i.e., that the "genius" Shakespeare "in his abundance and complexity of composition -- can write anything he wants, on a complex, multifaceted scale." Full many a glorious morning have I seen Flatter the mountain tops with sovereign eye, Kissing with golden face the meadows green, Gilding pale streams with heavenly alchemy; Anon permit the basest clouds to ride With ugly rack on his celestial face And from the forlorn world his visage hide, Stealing unseen to West with this digrace. Even so my son one early morn did shine With all triumphant splendour on my brow; But, out alack! he was but one hour mine, The region cloud hath mask'd him from me now. Yet him for this my love no whit disdaineth; Suns of the world may stain when heaven's sun staineth. Sonnet 33
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 21, 2006 11:12:16 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, ( and Don and Others also ) , hmm, no doubt, that Francis Bacon is really a hot candidate for being the author of (most?) part of Shakespeare's work ! a special argument i found, pointing to the authorship of francis Bacon, is a medical related evidence, cause "Shakespeare" used a very recent (at that) important medical discovery, (blood circulation), done by a good friend of Francis Bacon, Dr. William HARVEY, but done shortyl after the official death of Shakespeare !! later found in one of "his" plays named: Merry wives " may be you know that, if not , simply read at: www.sirbacon.org/owencirculation.htm --- ok, since some months i am (mostly) permanently full in action, sometimes really stressed, more and more noticing clear symptoms of a "burn out"-syndrome, so i took some days of short vacations, a little bit relaxing, doing some urgent private things, working in the garden or in my house, due the now more and more rising spring ! this year, we have been waiting for it so long (in germany) !! now, i printed your well appreciated comments, a nice lecture, taking it with me into my vacations !! we will meet us end of next week ! so stay happy and always tuned for the knowledge and wisdom of our universe(s) ! best wishes and greetings from bavaria: Bernie ************************************************
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 27, 2006 10:17:06 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard I hope you have "burned out" by now and regenerated in your "little green hell," and am glad that you are slowly coming over to "our side." Aside from our investigation here, Simon Miles sent me an email a few days ago pertaining to the link you gave, which I give in part: "the owen story is fascinating, fascinating, fascinating....he was a doctor in detroit who memorised shakespeare entire on his rounds. then he had the idea to put all the works of shakespeare and others on a giant wheel....which he devised a method from which to extract an alternative narrative from the plays....its the cypher story of francis bacon. "the whole story is too strange for words. the cypher story which resulted is the origin of all kinds of key ideas of the bacon movement including the virgin birth, essex as his brother and his use of many masks like marlow etc." He mentions Parker Woodward's "Tudor Problems", and I have a book by his brother Frank Woodward, published in 1923, of almost nothing but cypher. What's in Hamlet? "Francisco", Francis, keeps watch over Elsinore Castle. It is bitter cold and "Hamlet" is sick at heart. Francis Bacon is ever vigilant of what happens at Elizabeth's "castle." He is left out in the cold because Elizabeth refuses to acknowledge him as her son (as well as Essex),denies him the crown, experiences "the greatest hardships through Cecil, who from the outset opposed his efforts to secure government office." He cannot be with his great love Marguerite of Navarre, and many other events thoughout his life make him sick at heart. Bernardo and Marcellus, thw friend, let's say Ben Jonson and Toby Mathews, who Francisco greets warmly in the night, and who help him "keep watch at Elsinore," are talking about a ghost who appeared the on the previous night. Horatio/Anthony Bacon, stepbrother of Francis, says that the ghost is only a fantasy, on the other hand "it harrows him with fear and wonder." Marcellus says tha he, Horatio is the "scholar" and should be able to talk to it. The ghost looks like the dead king of Denmark and wears the "very armour" the king of Denmar/England wore when he fought ambitous Norway. This has to do with "Fortinbras/Essex, who was sent to Norway with his father Leicester. Hamlets Revenge The ghost here is Bacon's father and husband of Elizabeth, the Earl of Leicester, whom she never officially acknowledged, ever denying him the title of "Queen Consort." In the play he is "the Old Hamlet" who had poison poured in his ear while asleep in his orchard. There is one account embedding two versions of how Leicester died. The Queen poisened him, or had him poisened, because, among other hurts he inflicted upon her, he, while yet married to the Queen, secretly married Lady Howard Sheffield, and Lettice, widow of Walter Lord Essex, the Old Hamlet who died only two month ago in the Play, before Leicester married his widow Lettice with "most wicked speed, to post, with such dexerity to incestous sheets." Madam Deventer writes: "His (Leicester's) death occurred in 1588, while both he and Lettice were ill. As recorded in 'Leicesters Commonwealth,' Leicester had mixed poison with medicine. Lettice however, handed it to Leicester, believing it to be harmless medical drink. His death resulted." A likely story "they" recorded. In any event, this is the reason why the "ghost of his father" tells Hamlet to avange his death. The roles of Leicester and the Queen are reversed in the Play. Hamlet accuses his mother Gertrude/Elizabeth of this speedy remarriage, and says "it is not nor it cannot come to good, but break, my heart, for I must hold my tongue." Again, Francis intimates that he keeps watch at Elsinore but holds his tongue so as not to infuriate Elizabeth. The Queen was not married before. Leicester was, to his first wife Lady Amy, when he seduced Gertrude/Elisabeth, described by the ghost. Lady Amy complained in letters to her husband Leicester of his neglect. She "died suddenly; as it was said, in consequence of a fall from the stairs in Cummer Hall", an "isolated dwelling" where Leisester had moved her while courting the Queen. "The 'Dictionary of National Biography' states that Lady Amy's death was reported to be the result of a plan to murder her," writes Madam Deventer. The servants whispered that Leicester's attempt to poison her failed and then she was found at the bottom of the stairs. A fitting name "Kummer Hall" or hall of grief. In the Play, Claudius/Leicester expresses his happiness about his new marriage to the Queen and accession. "After Lady Amy's death Leicesters career can be followed as constantly rising in favor with Elizabeth" writes Madam Deventer. She was smitten with the Earl, forgave him many times for his indiscretions, but then no more. Her greatest love was for the State, she would live and die a "Virgin Queen" and be the last of the Todors. When Hamlet commands the ghost, who claims to be Old Hamlet or Leicester, to talk, the ghost tells him that he died "with unconfessed sins" tells him that the "O horribe, O horrible, most horrible" effects of poison made his skin to crust, to kill Claudius to avange him, but not to taint his mind by killing his mother. Clearly, one can see that the ghost Leicester implicates Elizabeth as his murderess, but don't kill her for Hamlet not to kill her for it. Bacon had no such thoughts ever, he was loyal to the end to the Queen and the State, ever working to set things right. Since Shakespeare incorporated many meanings in his Plays, poring poison in someone's ear also means the intrigues at Court. Cecil, for instance, did not whisper, but poured poison in Elizabeth's ear. Horatio/Anthony gives a clue by saying that the young Fortinbras/Essex is the son of the late king Fortinbras/Leicester, who as king Claudius referrers to Hamlet as his "son, a little more than kin and less kind." Clearly, here is Fortinbras/Essex and Hamlet/Bacon as the sons of Leisester, who was less kind, to say the least. Old Hamlet is a necessary figure who can be used in many ways in the Play. The ghost "bodes some strange eruption in our state." One of forbodings is, says Horatio/Anthony, that Fortinbras/Essex "of unimproved mettle hot and full" is preparing for war. Horatio knew the "Hotspur" very well. Francis, Anthony, and Essex were the closest of friends. In fact, Anthony so loved Francis that "he wanted to be just like him." In "Charlotte's Web", Jeffry the duckling will not go with his mother and his siblings for swimming lessons, he wants to stay with Wilbur and says: "I want to be just like Wilbur", and the spider is bent on saving Wilbur's life. Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Apr 27, 2006 12:03:20 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte ( and Simon MILES as well ), huuh, so much stuff, and not the time to fully "jump into" this interesting matter ! a few minutes ago, i did some crossreading of this new informations, and printed it out for an evening lecture ! and i found a very good website, ( it's sad: the author, or his father (?), passed away last year ), providing an excellent collection of related (in thsi context) articles at : home.att.net/%7Etleary/mainmenu.htm ----- -- yes, and even covering this strange sounding exotic topic of OAK ISLAND under special aspect of some relation with Shakespeare ( i still knew it) . the website also offers the different (6) signatures of "Shakespeare" including the variants of this name. Hmm,... , while looking at these signatures, i real do wonder, if this signatures were not written by a real person named shakespeare ( or the name's variants) , cause these signatures are looking like an artificial construct, "overstyled", done like a FAKED signature. the hand of a very experienced longtime author, an author of thousands of script-pages, would have produced another signature, more elegant and dynamical, or even a very hastily (bad) written signature, but within one movement or flow, wthout much breaks !?? a human's hand could not "run" along such crazy overstyled curves, always breaking the flow of the hand's (pen/pencil) movement !? that's for the moment ! --- i am back from my "little green hell", but not enough time to recover from permant stress, it's something better, but still need much more relaxing !!! --- ok, now best regards as always from bavaria: BERNIE
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Post by Charlotte on Apr 28, 2006 9:28:48 GMT -5
Glad you have recovered somewhat Bernhard. The only time I am ever at peace is when I walk about the Giza Plateau, and sat in the shade of a huge cliff at the Valley of the Kings, then the world doesn't, and did not matter for me at all. The signatures of various spelling of Shagpur are fuzzy because "bloted." His signatures look FAKED" and as if written one letter at a time, because it is an open question whether he could write or read. Mark Twain states that he was "of good farmer class parents who could not read, write, could not seign their names." Madam Deventer writes: In fact, a heavy point with a small diagonal stroke is all there is to Shakspere's signature." To which Willard Parker adds that his daughter "Judith was also illiterate. At the age of 26 she signed, with her mark, legal papers still extant." If the signatures are the actors he probably was coached letter by letter or his hand was guided. We'll find out eventually . . . The case stands different with Francis Bacon. Save a few, because there are always a few, even the most learned have barely touched his mind as Shakespeare: "By the mind I shall be seen." He is like the Rhinegold which can be seen but not had. His masterful language flashes truths upon the individual mind, and what is realised cannot be communicated. In Hamlet, Polonius is made to say: "Where truth is hid, though it were hid indeed, within the centre." In everyone's centre. It will take the new humanity he created the duration of this current new age to grow old to reach those untrammeled heights where he lived, and of which he speaks in various High Ways and by ways. Bacon Since sparks can work but upon matter prepared I have the more reason to wish that these sparks fly abroad, that they may the better find and light upon those minds and spirits, which are apt to be kindled. (The individual mind) Fern writes: "Alas, too often we find those in whom a spark arouses but an instinct to extinguish it. They even go to the unblievable lenght trying to prove, that a spark isn't a spark. If to their horror they see one kindled into a bright flame, they maliciously try to burry it with rubbish and childishly convince themselves that there wasn't any fire, the while masking their faces with a cowardly sneer." She had much experience with such and is less kind to these doctors and commentators, whose absurd interpretations of the Sonnets and Hamlet I have touched upon in a previous post, and the historians who see Bacon a "dull writer." But they may be forgiven because they either don't know, don't understand because of their own dullness, or are bent on discrediting him for reasons of their own. Fern: "As to the questioned validity of 'concealment', one thing is certain, it was lawfully required concealment, prayerfully inviting discovery, ingeniously inducing it, hopefully and fervently desiring it." There is a lawful unfolding of the mysteries. Why is Hamlet the most famous and most produced Play? Why are most of the Sonnets an ever flowing fount from the highest peaks of Parnassus of which thousands at any given time try to catch a sparkling drop again and again to eventually have a rainbow of seven colors? Because Bacon ingeniously induced and prayerfully invited discovery of, as Ben Jonson says of Bacon: "Thou standst as though a mystery thou didst." I might add that the Egyptians, rather, the "Followers of Horus", did exactly the same thing. It doesn't matter in the slightest how many, though fascinated and obsessed with that civilization say a spark isn't a spark. Concerning the Bacon/Shakespeare controversy, Ben Jonsons words shoul be repeated until commited to memory by every person on this planet. To the Royal, ingenous, and all-learned Knight Sir Francis Bacon Thy bounty and the beauty of thy wit Comprised in lists of law and learned arts Each making thee for great emplyment fit, Which now thou hast (though short of thy deserts) Compells my pen to let fall shining ink And to bedew the baies that deck thy front; And to thy health in helicon I drink As to her Bellamour the Muse is wont; For thou dost her embosom; and dost use Her company for sport twixt great affairs. So utterest law the livelier through thy Muse And for that all thy notes are sweetest aires. My Muse thus notes thy worth in every line with ink which thus she squares, so to shine. Some of these words can be found in Hamlet. Francis embosoms his Muse, uses her company for sports twixt great affairs of the State, and the Muse influences his speach as a lawer indeed. Jonson bedews what decks Francis' front, and even in those days Bacon was short of his deserts. So what is the problem? Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on May 1, 2006 11:30:51 GMT -5
Mine is just another feeble attempt to explain Shakespeare, but I think I can do better, pardon me, than our commentators, who leave us with words like: why this is so is never explained, why the scene changes apruptly we are not told, this seems to have nothing to do with the play, as an aside Hamlet says in a solioquy, etc.
The Elizabethan Court and the Spirit World in Hamlet.
Horatio/Anthony warns Hamlet/Francis not to follow the ghost who may lead him toward "falling off" into chaos, not a "cliff" as we think of a cliff, to possibly push Hamlet over the edge, which the ghost did but after another manner. Francis, Anthony, and Toby Mathews are in the spirit realm, "trouble to the mind's eye" of Horatio/Anthony. Hamlet/Francis follows the ghost but will not take another step until the ghost, who has little time, speaks.
My hour is almost come, When to sulph'rous and tormenting flames Must render up myself.
This pertains to Leicester, who died with unconfessed sins, and must make amends for murdering Lady Amy and Lettice, two of his wives, but also to the "transformation" of Hamlet as will become apparent.
Hamlet. Alas, poor ghost.
Ghost. Pity me not, but lend thy serious hearing To what I shall unfold.
Hamlet. I am bound to hear.
Ghost. So art thou to revenge, when thou shalt hear.
Shakespeare invites serious hearing to his "unfolding" the murder of Leicester, Hamlet's father, by poison by Elizabeth, which the ghost bids Hamlet to avange, but as I said Bacon never had such thoughts, parallel with another father, "a goodly king", "my noble fathers person" of young Hamlet, whom he will address as "Hamlet, King and father, royal Dane" whom he sees "in his minds eye." Bacon gives us to know that he means himself at times, as it was he who was stung by a harrowing, woundrous serpent who wears a crown. This "noble father" in his minds eye is not Leicester, whom Francis did not like, also indicated in the Play.
Everybody knows that serpents and snakes always fly and slitter about in the transformative process. In Shakespeare's "Antony and Cleopatra" it is "the pretty worm of Nilus there", described by a clown, "that kills and pains not - his biting is immortal. Those that die of it do seldom or never recover - a women should not do but in the way of honesty - how she died and of the biting of it, what pain she felt. Truly, she makes a very good report o' th' worm, but he that will believe all that they say shall never be saved by half that they do. But this is a most fallible, the worm's an odd worm. You must think this, look you, that the worm will do his kind. Look you, the worm is not to be trusted but in the keeping of the wise people; for indeed there is no goodness in the worm."
The clown tells Cleopatra that "a women is a dish for the gods if the devil dress her not. (My emphasis) But truly, these some whoreson devils do the gods great harm in their women; for in every ten that they make, the devils mare five." The clown wishes Cleopatra "joy o' th' worm", she hears Anthony calling, has "immortal longings" in her, applies an asp to her breast, calling it a "mortal wretch" and "poor venomous fool", applies another asp to become "fire and air", leaving her "other elements to baser life", closes her eyes to the mortal world, "And Golden Phoebus never (was) beheld, Of eyes again so royal." And Cleopatra's death never so misinterpreted by historians.
Charmain "trimming up the diadem of her dead mistress", also aplied to herself an asp and stood trembling, then "on the sudden dropp'd "O noble weakness." Cesar says of Cleopatra: "She levell'd at our purpose, and being royal (as all ardent seekers are) Took her own way. The manner of her death? I do not see them bleed." Left is only "an aspic's trail" and the "fig leaves have slime upon them, such as the th aspic leaves upon the caves of Nile." It is "probable that she died" says Cesar, "for her physician" told him that "she hath pursu'd conclusions infinite - of easy ways to die - no grave upon the earth shall clip in it - a pair so famous - high events as these strike those that make them - see High order in this solemnity."
Her death is not explained, writes the commentator in "The Complete Works of Shakespeare", that her prison (like Hamlet, for whom all of Denmark is a prison, here, the body) in her imagination only, in a way yes. And, "Shakespeare seems to equate the lictors (officers) of ancient Rome with the beadles of his own time, whose function it was to whip whores", thus explaining the whoreson devils who do great harm to women. Never discerning or not wanting too, that Cleopatra's death bed was obviously a bed of transformation, because this "noble weakness" is a high event indeed, to the spirtitual realm, that Cleopatra took her own way in persuing infinite conclusion of how to get there, that in this sense her and Antony have no grave upon this earth, and seeing not the "High order in this solemnity."
But what mortal can understand the language of an immortal, pleasing to repeat Shelley on Bacon, the "sweet and majestic rhythm, the superhuman wisdom of his philosophy which satisfies the intellect. It is as a rain which distends and then bursts the circumference of the reader's mind and pours itself forth together with it into the universal elements with which it has perpetual sympathy." Shakespeare springs this ring-pass-not with every line, alas, it closes quickly.
Digressing further with snake story i told before in short at Ma'at, but it fits well here.
Some years ago, in the shadow of the Great Pyramid, I saw a man repairing a bench. To start a conversation I walked over and asked jokingly if he needed help. He straightened up, looked at me for a second and smiled, then continued hammering some old, crocked nails into the wood. Having seen me many times before, and sitting on a similar "couch" with the Pyramid Champ in conversation, he knew what I was on about and what I was after. I wanted to joke further by saying "I always get what I aim for and what's in your mind is what I came for", but didn't want to walk in before I asked for the key.
While working away he asked me as of out of the blue if I ever heard of "snakes with hair." I said no, but that I have heard of snakes with feathers. We agreed silently that it's the same thing, that we had a common reference which made a conversation possible. He asked if I believe that such snakes exist, and I told him that I was not sure. Nodding his head vigorously, he said that they really do exist, that there was one living in his house. Oh, did he have my attention. Matter-of-fact wise I asked if I could see it, but he gave me a "you can't fool me smile" and said that the "snake is hiding himself so well - myself I can't find it." Rats, I thought, and asked with all the innocents I could muster if maybe he could just show me a hair the snake lost somewhere in his house. We were playing a cat and mouse game by now, and he humored me along, saying "maybe tomorrow I will bring one for you." He said that there are many snakes with hair in Libya, living in the house of "the father of snakes Achmed Refayei. I tryed to egg him on a bit more and said Rafayei sounded like the name of a magician to me. Silence.
He changed the subject by showing me two sort of "healed" but distinct fingerprints on either of his arms a feww inches above his elbow. These fingerprints, he said becoming very animated, were made by "a women you not imagin, never never, how she is beautiful like an angel, she come to me from" he didn't know where, "and I love her to much to much like no women I see." But when she had his heart, she "slowly by slowly turned ugly and more ugly, and became as unimaginable ugly as she had been beutiful before. He was so "shocked" and tried to run away but she grabbed his arms to hold him back, and the fingerprints I see on his arms were made by her, he said with eyes, voice, and body language that commanded not another question to be asked, not another word to be spoken. He knew I had an idea of what he was talking about, and walked away as pale as I imagin Horatio has been when he saw the ghost.
Seeing the fingerprints on his arms, certain that his story was not an invention, made the spirit world all the more real to me, and aided my understanding of what the clown says to Cleopatra of the devil dressing women. So here we have another "Dark Lady" beautiful and ugly at once, belonging to much more in heaven and on earth than dream'd of in our philosophy.
Unfathomable Shakesperae
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Post by Charlotte on May 3, 2006 11:48:01 GMT -5
Don't mean to tarry all that long in the spirit world, but Shakespeare is not workable by picking and choosing, for with every line he shakes a lance at ignorance, and every other sentence I am stuck . . .
While in the memory of the living, and before Leicester, or anyone for that matter, is purged of crimes done in his "days of nature", he cannot rest in peace.
Despite being warned by Horatio "what if it (the ghost) tempt you toward the flood, my lord - Or to the dreadful summit of the cliff", assumes some other horrible form and draws Hamlet into madness? On the other hand, there is "method" in Hamlet's "crafty madness" not to devulge a secret. He will follow the ghost, he needs to know whether the ghost is "a spirit of health" or "a goblin damn'd." Why should he fear, his soul "being a thing immortal as itself", and he trusts "heaven will direct it."
Here, Shakespeare addresses the world of revengeful earth-bound entities also, but the main figure is Leicester who had good reason wanting his murder avanged. The ghost is as air and cannot be stabbed to death by mortals, but when the rooster, whose occult powers keep dangerous spirits at bay, crows, the ghost must disappear. The cock crowing in the morning in the Play is not merely derived from an "invented"Christmas legends where the rooster crows all night long.
Some say that ever 'gainst that season comes Wherein our Saviour's birth is celebrated, The bird of dawning singeth all night long; And then, they say, no spirit can walk abroad; Nor fairy takes, nor witch has power to charm, So hallow'd and so gracious it the time.
In Hamlet, the birth and death of our Saviour is a cosmic drama. Hamlet not only speaks of periodic sacrifice, not "actual suicide", but also of a lifelong sacrifice, not "lifelong suicide", how can one do suicide all one's life?
The periodic sacrifice is Francis Bacon denying himself over and again for the well being and safety of the Queen and the good of the State, and his lifelong sacrifice is for the advancement of humanity, the "sacrificial slaughter of a hog" as it was known by the Welch, and the old sheep in the barn tells Wilbur that he is only raised to be killed at Christmas time and turned into "smoked bacon and ham." Whether E.B. White was thinking along these lines or not, I think he was, does not matter one bacon bit, in the greater picture it has everything it has everything to do with this cosmic drama.
Hamlet lends serious hearing to his father Leicester's ghost, but there is an other part to it also.
Hamlet. What?
Ghost. I am thy fathers spirit, Doom'd for a certain term to walk the night, And for the day confin'd to fast in fires, Till the foul crimes done in my days of nature Are burnt and purg'd way. But that I am forbid To tell the secrets of my prison house, I could a tale unfold whose lightest word Would harrow up thy soul, freeze thy young blood, Make thy two eyes, like stars, start from their spheres, Thy knotted and combined locks part, And each particular hair stand an end Like quills upon the fretful porpentine. But this eternal blazen must not be To ears of flesh and blood. List, list, O, list! If thou didst ever did thy father love.
This pertains to Bacon's "neither the births nor the obortions of time have ever been told." The secrets of this prison house and eternal blazing must not be told, but listen, listen, o listen, pleads Bacon, if you ever loved your "father."
Hamlet. O God!
Ghost. Revenge his foul and most unnatural murder.
Hamlet. Murder?
Ghost. Murder most foul, as in the best it is; But this most foul, strange, and unnatural.
Hamlet. Hast me to know't that I, with wings as swift As meditation or the thoughts of love, May sweep to my revenge.
The ghost says to revenge "his", not "my" father as Leicester, foul and unnatural murder, and on the swift wings of meditation and thoughts of love Hamlet sweeps to redeem this murder. . . .
Ghost. I find thee apt; A duller shouldst thou be than that fat weed That rots itself in ease on Lethe wharf.
Now I say with Hamlet "O God!" Devoid of even dull thought and my words but childish praddle in Shakespeare's universes.
And so I seek and find, at the same time, the fat weed of Asphodel, "ghostly grey", which "grows on the banks of the river Lethe in the Greek Hades"; and, the "dwelling" place "of most of the shades of Hades", but am ever grateful for another species of asphodels", called "Novi Svit", which are golden bright", remainding one "of the fire-bird straight from a fairy-tail" because I love fairy tales.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on May 4, 2006 5:42:54 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard, Hope you had a good work week and will have a pleasant weekend as well as everyone else, and if you around Don, thanks for the e-mail I am leaving in about an hour for San Francisco, have a job there and will be back in a good week. Good thing tis before I get any deeper into Hamlet and never get out of it, it's hard to stop. It seems one has to read everything or nothing. Anyway, when I come back I'll try to concentrate on who is who in the Play as far as the Elizabethan Court is concerned, which was my original purpose. Der Mai ist gekommen die Bäume schlagen aus, Da bleibe wer Lust hat mit Sorgen zu Haus' Which you much sunshine Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on May 4, 2006 9:31:59 GMT -5
Hi CHARLOTTE, You are really a "treue Seele" ! thanks for this nice old poem ! YES: the Spring is back in Bavaria !! iWARM AND SUNNY !! -- hmm, i feel a little bit "guilty" , because i simply did not have the time, to answer all your qualified comments of the last two weeks ! some two decades have still passed, when i was more prepared for this Shakespear-related stuff. now it needs some more efforts and time to recapitulate (? "rekapitulieren" ), bringing back the knowledge, which is stored in the dusty catacombs of my "giant" brain ( ;D !! to enable a fast and well formulated reply, some more informations must be ready for access, "on demand", to establish the moments of short but qualified communication between the larger periods of work !! BUT: now it seemed, that the most additional stressic projects and subjects we had to test, to prepare and to install within the last months, are running quite good, reliable and professional. the way it must be, and i can focus my work on the more daily or normal subjects: will say, looks, as if i will have more time in the coming weeks !! JUHU ! and TIME FOR At LEAST one week of relaxing at my "little green hell". having fun with doing garden-jobs, house-restoratings, and so on ! i will print out Your comnments of the last week for studying it in the coming days, while sitting in the sun, having a cup of coffee/cappucino, and the joy and mental fitness to read and understand this material !! --- NOW I WISH YOU A FINE STAY in SAN FRANCISCO !! have a good and satiyfying week there ! --- BEST REGARDS TO YOU, and DON, and the Others here, where ever they are !? - BERNIE
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Post by Charlotte on May 19, 2006 9:04:56 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard and All, Don't feel guilty, Bernhard, after all, we have a mundane life to live. You are probably off for more relaxation on this weekend. I read my posts and realize how much is missing in trying to hurry through them, so Geothe's view of the chracters in Shakespeare's Plays come in handy, i.e., they "act before us as if they were watches, whose dail-plates and cases were of crystal, which pointed out according to their use their course of the hour and minutes; while at the same time you could discern the combinations of wheels and springs that turn." It's the wheels and springs turning while reading in one's individual mind which make it so difficult to comment on Shakespeare, hence "the tragic barrenness of academic learning when unilluminated by the living spirit." The examples of such spiritless interpretations I have given are personified in Holofernes and Sir Nathaniel in Love's Labour's Lost, "in which 'learned clowns' discourse utter nonesense, (it) is also the unsuspecting vihicle for carrying the signature of the Rosicrucian Order, with which lies the real authorship of the Shakespearian Book of Initiate Wisdom. For deciphering of that signature, doubly and trebly veiled, multiple hints are provided, together with numerous allusions to the Arcane Mysteries. "How veiled to academic learning are the inner stucture, the esoteric content, the initiatory truths that have found such sublime utterance in the works of Shakespeare! For three hundred years and more they have remained in virtual concealment, but happily, the day is fast approaching when the Mysteries will be restored even in their outward form, and the Wise Ones' labors of love will not be lost upon the unappreciating humanity." From the Rosicrucian Library It is sad that students of Shakespeare are thaught such spiritless nonsense in our institutions of learning, on the happy side, I heard a few days ago on the radio that a Palestinian prisoner, together with others in an Israely jail, are reading Shakespeare, the creator of a new humanity Love . . . is . . . sweet and musical As bright Apollo's lute, strung with the harp; And when love speaks, the voice of all the gods Makes heaven drowsy with the harmony.
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Post by Charlotte on May 29, 2006 15:44:49 GMT -5
Are you gesund und munter Bernhard?
Hamlet. I am but mad north-north-west, and when the wind blows southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw.
Polonius thinks that Hamlet is mad because his daughter Ophilia does not return his love, but King Claudius says to him
Love? his affections do not that way tend; Nor what he spake, though it lack'd form a little, Was not like madness. There's something in his soul O'er which his melancholy sits on brood;
King Claudius, here the "Uncle" of Hamlet, whereas elswhere he is his mother's Gertrude's husband, says to Polonius that he doubts "the hatch and the disclosure will be some danger", and if it is he has a "quick determination - to prevent" it.
"Set it down" says Claudius, Hamlet has demanded tribute, but we have neglected, think "denied" him tribute, and if hatches a plan to force the issue, or discloses something which should not be known, I will prevent it by sending him "with speed to England." It will distract him from making trouble, and "expel This something-settled matter in his heart , Wheron his brains still beating puts him thus From fashion of himself. What think you on't?
Of what fashion does Hamlet think he is? And what is this matter settled in his heart which causes him to beat his brain against the wall to the point of madness?
Polonius thinks it is a good idea to send Hamlet away to calm down
But yet I do believe The origin and commencement of his grief Sprung from neglected love. - How now, Ophelia? You need not tell us what Lord Hamlet said. We heard it all.
Polonius knows that Claudius disagrees with him as to Hamlet's origin of melancholy and grief, and says:
My lord, do as you please; But if you hold it fit, after the play Let his queen mother all alone entreat him To show his grief. Let her be round with him; And I'll be plac'd, so please you, in the ear Of all their conference. If she find him not, To England send him; or confine him where Your wisdom best shall think.
Claudius says: "It shall be so. Madness in great ones must not unwatch'd go."
What are these two afraid of?
Hamlet's grief does come from neglected love, but not Ophelia's, rather from his queen mother Elizabeth, with her he shall be all alone to show his grief and she shall "be round with him", or come clean before he makes the dangerous disclosure that Francis was her son and heir to the throne of England.
Rosencrantz tells Hamlet that his mother, "Then thus she says: your behavior hath struck her into amazement and admiration." Why would a mother admire madness?
Hamlet. Oh, wonderful son, that can so stonish a mother! But is their no sequal at the heels of this mother's admiration? Impart.
No, she never acknowledged him or Essex as her sons, but was never at ease about it.
Rosencrantz. She desires to speak to you in her closet ere you go to bed.
Hamlet. We shall obey, where she ten times our mother. Have you any further trade with us?
Rosencrantz. My lord, you once did love me.
Hamlet. And still do, by these pickers and stealers!
Rosencrantz. Good my lord, what is your cause of distemper? You do surely bar the door upon your own liberty, if you deny your grief to your friend.
Hamlet. Sir, I lack advancement.
Rosencrantz. How can that be, when you have the voice of the King himself for your succession of Denmark?
Hamlet. Ay, sir, "while the grass grows" -- the proverb is something musty.
This Hamlet is Francis Bacon, who has the voice of the King himself in terms of "we", "us", and "our mother", but lacks advancement at the Court in general, and to the throne of England because there is no sequal on the heels of Elizabeth even though, and/or because of her being struck with amazement and admiration for him. Throughout the play, Queen Gertrude, and thoughout life, Queen Elizabeth, are torn between love and acceptance: "Come hither my dear Hamlet, sit by me" says Gertrude lovingly, but in life Elizabeth, though she had tender words for him occasionally, wished to have inscribed on her monument that she lived and died a "Virgin Queen."
Alfred Dodd writes:
Francis Bacon's poetic petition or Sonnet-Suit ( to acknowledge him openly as her son) written and presented shortly after his residence in Grya's Inn, did not however, influence the Queen to make a decision one way or the other."
To the question of now King Claudius of how he "fares", Hamlet answers: "Excellent, i' faith, of the chameleon's dish, I eat the air, promise-cramm'd. You cannot feed capons so." And an interpreter observes keenly: "Hamlet is implying that the promise of succession to the throne is not enough to satisfy him, thus fostering the King's believe that he is mad because of frustrated ambition. There is a further quibble on heir." And "Since capon was a gelded, overfed rooster, Hamlet may be implying that the King has deprived him of his manhood and is preparing him for slaughter." Tis very interesting, he brings in something he probably read elsewhere. Maybe he read that Wilbur is fattened up to be killed at Christmas, naa. Hamlet was not deprived of his manhood, but uncle Claudius/Cecil/Polonius, here all the same, deprived him of the throne as shown in the dialog between them above.
Apropos barring the door to his, Hamlet's own liberty, the same interpreter writes: "Rosencrantz hints that Hamlet may be put under restaint (as a lunatic) if he stubbornly refuses to tell what ails him", but on second glance, Rosencrantz reminds Hamlet that he once loved him, and can trust him with "the coinage of his brain", and that has nothing to do with lunacy. Then, he almost gets it right again: "I lack advancement - Again Hamlet suggests frustrated political ambition as the source of his madness. The proverb i'e. while the grass is growing the horse starves - musty and therefore to trite to quote." No, not to trite, but err musty.
Words, words, words, is all Bacon got.
Charlotte
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Post by Charlotte on May 31, 2006 11:44:50 GMT -5
Hamlet is mean to his mother the Queen
They are in the Queens closet. Plonius bids Gertrude to "be round" with Hamlet and he, having ears everywhere at Elizabeth's Court, will listen in on their conversation, with the Queen's consent. Polonius, being William Cecil and Bacon's uncle, on whose advice and "judgment in all matters of consequence" the Queen relied upon. Gertrude says to Polonius: don't worry, I'll deal with Hamlet, but Hamlet, like Francis, stood his ground, often at the risk of being sent to the tower by Elizabeth's wave of her hand. He told her over and again that his conscience dictates his decisions in State matters, and took liberty in confronting her and her ministers like none other, save her other son, Robert Earl of Essex, only, Francis was diplomatic and gentle in language.
Hamlet. Now, mother, what's the matter?
Queen. Hamlet, thou hast thy father much offended.
Hamlet. Mother, you have my father much offended.
Queen. Come, come, you answer with an idle tongue.
Hamlet. Go, go, you question with a wicked tongue.
Queen. Why, how now, Hamlet?
Hamlet. What's the matter now?
Queen. Have you forgot me?
Hamlet. No, by the rood, not so! You are the Queen, your husband's brother's wife, And (would it were not so!) you are my mother.
Queen. Nay, then I'll set those to you that can speak.
Hamlet. Come, come, and sit you down. You shall not budge! You go not till I set you up a glass Where you may see the inmost part of you.
Queen. What wilt thou do? Thou wilt murder me? Help, help, ho!
Polonius behind the curtain, being worried, hears this and gives himself away by repeating the Queen's words, more or less. Hamlet smells a rat and kills Polonius (but not really), who worked against Francis' advancement tirelessly. Francis, at times, complaining in carefully chosen words (behind a curtain), about Cecil's unmitigated power at Court, killing some of his influence. Hamlet is suspected of hiding his body which can't be found, and he refuses to tell where he hid it.
Hamlet doesn't know whom he killed and asks if it was the King.
Queen. O, what a rash and bloody deed is this?
Hamlet. A bloody deed -- almost as bad, good mother, As kill a king, and marry with his brother.
Queen. Kill a King?
Hamlet. Ay, lady, it was my word.
Hamlet sees that he killed Polonius and calls him a "wretched, rash, intruding fool", elswhere he calls him a "fishmonger." Hamlet says to his mother "let me", and "so I shall - ring your heart - if it be made of penetrable stuff if damned custom have not braz'd it so." Elizabeth was cold and calculating.
Queen. What have I done that though dar'st wag thy tongue In noise so rude against me?
Hamlet couldn't begin to tell her in one sitting in the closet. Many other meanings run parallel here, so I'll pluck out only things relevant to my thinking.
Hamlet says that "grace" is blurred by "blush of modesty", the Queen being a virgin, Calls virtue hypocrite; takes off the rose From the fair forehead of an innocent love, And sets a blister there;
Francis Bacon was a Tudor, had the rose taken off his fair forehead at birth and as a youth. The Queen asks Hamlet again what she has done that warrants him to be so mean to her, and Hamlet says it was an "act - That roars so loud and thunders in the index?" Of world history. He then brings in his brother Essex.
Hamlet. Look here upon this picture, and on this, The counterfeit presentment of two brother. See what a grace was seated on this brow; Hyperion's curls; the front of Jove himself; An eye like Mars, to threaten and command; A station like the herald Mercury New lighted on a heaven-kissing hill: A combination and a form indeed Where every god did seem to set his seal To give the world assurance of a man.
This is Lord Bacon. In the Play, Hamlet does not have a brother, he is a prince and an agent of heaven, Mercury.
Hamlet to Rosencrantz: "O wonderful son, that can so stonish a mother! But is there no sequel at the heels of this mother's admiration?
Francis Bacon's plight and complaints, to his uncle Lord Burghley, brother in law to Nicholas Bacon, Francis' foster father:
"My matter is an endless question -- In the meantime I have a hard condition: to stand so that whatever I do to Her Majesty, it shall be thought to be but lime-twigs and fetches to place myself . . . this is a course to quench all good spirits . . .
"I have been like a piece of stuff bespoken in a shop: And if Her Majesty will not take me, it may be the selling of parcels will be the more gainful. " It may be for the best if my mother rejects me, I can devote more time to my muse and "studies of greater delight."
"For to be, as I told you, like a child following a bird, which when it is nearest flyeth away and lighteth a little before, and then the child after it again, and so in infinitum, (at his mothers heels) I am weary of it; as also of wearying my friends . . ." And: "For indeed, I confess primus amor, the first love will not easily be cast off." The love for his mother Elizabeth.
Hamlet, speculate the commentators, is thirty, thirty one, or thirthy two years of age when Shakespeare wrote the tragic drama, and the gravedigger says that Hamlet is thirthy years old.
Bacon, again in a letter to his uncle Burghley:
"I wax now somewhat ancient; one and thirty years is a great deal of sand in the Hour-glass. My Health, I thank God, I find confirmed; and I do not fear that action shall impair it, because I account my ordinary course of Study and Meditation to be more painful than most parts of actions are.
"I ever bear a mind--in some middle place that I could discharge--to serve Her Majesty,; not as born under Sol, that loveth Honour; nor under Jupiter that loveth business--for the contemplative Planet carrieth me away wholly; but as a Man born under an excellent Sovereign, that deserveth the dedication of all men's abilities.
"The greater parts of my Thoughts are to deserve well--if I were able--of my friends, and namely of your Lordship; who being the Atlas of this Commenwealth, the Honour of my House, and the second founder of my poor Estate, (the first being Elizabeth his mother) I am tied by all duties, both of a good patriot, and of an unworthy kinsman, and of an obligated servant, to employ whatever I am to do you service.
"The meanness of my Estate doth somewhat move me: for though I cannot accuse myself that I am either prodigal or slothful, yet my Health is not to spend, nor my Course to get."
With the word "Health", Bacon denotes his whole being which is "confirmed" in several ways, and lets it be known how it stands with him at that age.
"I confess that I have vast Contemplative Ends as I have moderate Civil Ends: for I have taken all Knowledge to be my Province; and if I could purge it of two sorts of Rovers, whereof the one with frivolous dispotations, confutations, and verbosities, the other with Blind Experiments and auricular Traditions and Impostures, hath committed so may spoils, I hope I should bring in Industrious Observations, Grounded Conclusions and Profitable Inventions and Discoveries; the best state of that Province.
"This, whether it be curiosity, or vain-glory, or nature or--if one take it favourably--Philanthropia, is so fixed in my mind, as it cannot be removed. And I do easily see that place of any reasonable countenance doth bring commandment of more Wits than of any man's own; which is the thing I greatly affect.
"And for your Lordship, perhaps you shall not find more strenght and less encounter in the other."
Does uncle Burghley encounter what Lord Bacon here imparts?
When in disgrace with Fortune and mens eyes, I all alone beweep my out-cast state, And trouble deafe heauen with my bootless cries, And looke upon myself, and curse my fate. Wishing me like to one more rich in hope, Featur'd like him, like him with friends possest, Desiring this mans art, and that mans scope, With what I most enjoy contended least, Yet in these thoughts my selfe almost despising, Haplye I thinke on thee, and then my state, (Like to the Larke at break of daye arising) From sullen earth sings hymns at Heauen's gate, For thy sweet loue remembred such wealth brings, That then I scorne to change my state with King's.
Sonnet 29
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 5, 2006 8:26:47 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard,
You mentined the Blackfriar house and the hiding of Catholics. Here is what Dodd writes:
The first theater was built near London when Francis Bacon was fifteen, and none was allowed in the City for many years. Actors were held in abhorrence and classed by the law with rogues and vagabonds. But the theater gradually got a hold on the public through playhouses often attached to the roofless yard of a tavern. The playhouses had spread throughout the country and were visited by wandering companies of players. One of Elizabeth's first enactments was to restrain the abuses connected with them, performances anywhere having to be licensed by the magistrates. It was through the Earl of Leicester's licensed company that a theater was eventually built in London. The City officials disputed this. Feelings ran high. Preachers fulminated against it. Said one, "The cause of Plagues is Players." But James Burbage, of Leicester's Company, father of Richard, the actor, constructed the first regular theatre out of a house of many rooms in Blackfriars, and defied the authorities. By the close of the century there were ten theatres, the Glob in Southwark being built in 1594. It is interesting to note that the Queen took a very keen interest in Drama and its development and had her own group of Players, appointed in 1583. They wore scarlet cloaks and velvet caps in public. The Shakespeare Plays were only performed at the Globe and Blackfriars."
About hiding Catholics and helping then escape, Dodd says:
"He (Anthony Bacon) devoted to his service not only his life, but all his worldly wealth, which we see mysteriously melting away, but which no doubt, went, like that of Francis, into a common fund which was destined, as one of his correspondents expressed it, to keep alight his fire" so recently kindled.
"Before he (Anthony) returned from the Continent his rentals had shrunk considerably and he had to call on his mother for assistance. According to Lady Ann Bacon's letters she had "spent her jewels and borrowed from several persons in order to send her son the money he kept begging for his necessary expenses," which she suspected was going to help Papists, and persons suspected of being Papists, to escape, the truth being that the money was spend in the establishment of "the New Philosophy of active science," Rocicrucianism and Freemasonry."
Charlotte
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Post by BERNHARD on Jun 19, 2006 10:31:37 GMT -5
Dear Charlotte, relaunching the "who was the author behind Shakespear" topic, and looking for PRO-arguments of "francis Bacon being that author" , i would like to ask, if you know some notes on Bacon's private notebook or memorandum, not mentioned very often, but in every case of strong interest. it's a must: when we think, that Francis Bacon is a very good or strong Candidate for being the author who wrote "Shakespear"s work, than we must read this personal notebook ! i myself do not have a publication of this book, but some stuff is avalaible on this subject at : www.sirbacon.org/links/notebook.html ---- looks pretty interesting , yes ! the comparisons of several text-passages offers some good matches with "Shakespear" 's work !? -- more then at the end of the website ! that's for today ! Best regards: Bernie *****************
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Post by Charlotte on Jun 21, 2006 8:38:43 GMT -5
Hi Bernhard,
sirbacon.org is a informative site, Larry lives in San Francisco and keeps watch nowadays as Francisco did over Elsinore, just so to speak. Elizabeth I called Francis her "Watch-Candle."
Concerning Bacon's "personal notebook", you are probably referring to "The Promus", meaning "storehous." This "collection of witty sayings and proverbs in many languages, written in Francis Bacon's own handwriting", dated 1594-5, is in the British Museum.
At the time, Francis' "house of philosophy and letters" was Twickenham Park, a lovely country villa, granted to him by his mother the Queen. He wrote: "Twickenham is my pleasure and my dwelling."
Dodd also writes:
"In this notebook there is a mysterious and significant reference to his concealed labours as a poet, to what he elsewhere terms, "The Works of his Recreation," for he writes, Ye Law at Twicknam for Mery Tales." Suggested is, that one of the "Mery Tales" is Love's Labour's Lost."
"His earliest know letter is dated 14th August, 1592, to a Mr. Phillips.
"being now at Twickenham, I am desirous of your company. You may stay as long and as little while as you will: the longer the better welcome: I would be the wiser by you in many things; for that I call to confer with a man of your fullness.
"On the 25th January, 1594, he wrote to Anthony:
I have here an idle pen or two . . . I pray send me somewhat else for them to write out. . . .
From my Lodge at Twickenham Park, Your entire Loving Brother, Francis Bacon."
More tomorrow.
Apropos Shakespeare staying in Rome under different names, such as "Shfordus" in Rome, Francis' great love as a youth was Marguetite of Navarro, the daughter of Catherine de Medici . . .
You can find much documented information in German, in "Francis Bacon Last of the Tudors", by Madame A. Deventer von Kunow, a German lady residing and writing in Weimar, Thuringen, in 1921.
Charlotte
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