Was Earth formed by accretion within Jupiter? « Thread Started on Sept 6, 2006, 6:52pm »
Hello all adventure loving types, . . Out of college I joined a design group working on the fuel-pneumatic systems on the launch stage Saturn engines for Apollo. That experience (as it did in many cases) turns one's eyes past the hardware and into the beyond.
So it was that I started to study the science of the ancient civilizations. They were not Pagan, and their science was real. And it was not by chance that Jupiter was (Osiris) the King; (Zeus) the ruler of Olympus; and (Jove) the patron of the Roman state.
Jupiter had that prestigious ranking because the Ancients believed that Earth was formed by accretion deep within this gas giant, and was born from the Great Eye.
It's not clear how the Ancients saw the Great Eye of Jupiter (tho' we can attribute our ignorance, at least in part, on the destruction of the great libraries of Alexandria, Ashurbanipal, and others) --- but see it they did!
So what does this have to do with aerospace engineering? Just this - much of our work was put into the hardware that went into outer space - and onto new worlds. The new worlds held secrets, but some of those secrets weren't secrets to some of the ancient civilizations.
Re: Was Earth formed by accretion within Jupiter? « Reply #1 on Sept 7, 2006, 7:14am »
Quote:
Hello all adventure loving types, . . Out of college I joined a design group working on the fuel-pneumatic systems on the launch stage Saturn engines for Apollo. That experience (as it did in many cases) turns one's eyes past the hardware and into the beyond.
So it was that I started to study the science of the ancient civilizations. They were not Pagan, and their science was real. And it was not by chance that Jupiter was (Osiris) the King; (Zeus) the ruler of Olympus; and (Jove) the patron of the Roman state.
Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "a country dweller" or "civilian") ia a blanket term which has come to connote a broad set of western spiritual or religious beliefs and practices of natural or polehistic religions, as opposed to the Abrahamic monotheistic religions...more useful categories are shamanism, politheism or animism. Wikipedia
In this sense I am with the "country dwellers" and the shamans, pagans, "whose science was real." Agreed.
Jupiter had that prestigious ranking because the Ancients believed that Earth was formed by accretion deep within this gas giant, and was born from the Great Eye.
I would very much appreciate if you could quote one of the "Ancients" saying so.
It's not clear how the Ancients saw the Great Eye of Jupiter (tho' we can attribute our ignorance, at least in part, on the destruction of the great libraries of Alexandria, Ashurbanipal, and others) --- but see it they did!
As I understand these things, the ancient astronomers priests were initiates and therefore didn't need telescopes.
So what does this have to do with aerospace engineering? Just this - much of our work was put into the hardware that went into outer space - and onto new worlds. The new worlds held secrets,
but some of those secrets weren't secrets to some of the ancient civilizations.
Re: Was Earth formed by accretion within Jupiter? « Reply #2 on Sept 7, 2006, 7:29am »
JIMBOW, Do You want to refer planet Jupiter with the sumerian planet NIBIRU, according to sumerian and babylonian sources, with a partial sideview on the story with "10. planet" ( Z. Sitchin & Co ) ?. hmm, very problematical, to consider our EARTH as a spinoff of big brother Jupiter. mostly a gas-planet. the big red eye ( we in german call it "grosser roter fleck" --> = big red spot ) as the remain of the former location of that, was later become our planet earth ? Do You theorize of a massive impact into Jupiter, ( much more massive than the Shoemaker-Levy "chain.gang" scenario some years ago ) , which blowed out such a big cluster of gas and matter, which later condensed ( via accretion forces and so on ) to our planet !?? hmm, must have been a real deep impact, of a very fast running object, even reaching the real hard surface of Juoiter, penetrating some hundred miles into the surface, finishing with a remaining giant cratera till today. is this cratera/impact hole the reason, why we have thses massive turbulences like a permanent local thunderstorm just right here, whirling around, bringing deeper flowing levels of the athmosphere up to the higher regions: a big mixer !! these massive forces at work, together with some other effects ( electrostatic phaenomenons, incl. strong local magnetic-fields ) could result in forming and building a relatively stabile BIG RED EYE !. on the ground of this assumed cratera: are there additional vulcano-like processes, spitting hot material and/or gas from inside of big brother jupiter ?? -- till today i did not read a real convincing theory on this "red eye" !! ---- best regards: Bernie
Re: Was Earth formed by accretion within Jupiter? « Reply #3 on Sept 7, 2006, 1:51pm »
Hi Bernie
You asked} Do you want to refer planet Jupiter with the Sumerian planet Nibiru
jb} No!
You asked} Do you theorize of a massive (Shoemaker-Levy type) impact into Jupiter ?
jb} No! -- I base the original concept on the content of the Pyramid Texts, i.e., those 4000 lines of hieroglyphics on the walls of the pyramids of Saqqara whose content is primarily religious and scientific. The passage that initially caught my eye was this one
§ 1806:O Osiris the King, the gods have knit together your face for you and Horus has given you his Eye, that you may see with it.
Then looking at the Eye of Horus motif - and comparing it to Jupiter and the Great Eye - we can begin to put together the story of why Jupiter was Osiris the King, (Zeus) the ruler of Olympus; and (Jove) the patron of the Roman state.
Earth formed by accretion within Jupiter? « Reply #4 on Sept 7, 2006, 5:18pm »
Hello Charlotte and all,
jb wrote} Jupiter had (a) prestigious ranking because the Ancients believed that Earth was formed by accretion deep within this gas giant, and was born from the Great Eye.
Charlotte asked} I would very much appreciate if you could quote one of the "Ancients" saying so.
jb} Hi Charlotte - it's all in how you interpret the Pyramid Texts and the Book of the Dead. So in answer would you look at this website of mine first The celestial science of the ancient Egyptians (it'll show a new way of interpreting the Pyramid Texts). Then let's get back and I'll answer your question. .
Re: Was Earth formed by accretion within Jupiter? « Reply #5 on Sept 8, 2006, 6:39am »
Hi Jim,
I read some in "The celestial science of the Ancients" before, and I do agree that they had a celestial science, but I can't see you arriving via the PT that the eye of Horus is the red spot on Jupiter. I know the Ancients wrote differently, but there must be a more specific reference that it is so. Rather, I have to go with John A. West:
"The eye (of Horus) gives access to space, that is to say volume, and therefor to measure. In Egypt, the sections of the eye are the glyphs for the fractions 1/2 to 1/64. The parts total 63/64 [The sum of successive division will always fall short of unity except at infinity, which is perfectly consonant with Egyptian thought that only the Absolute is real.
"The symbols for the parts derive from the myth in which the eye of Horus is torn to bits by Set. Later Thoth miraculously reunites the bits."
But like I said, I don't know your avenues of thinking. This is a vast subject, and I would have to consult a few "higher authorities" also before I could voice an opinion.
Jupiter, the Eye of Horus & the wedjat eye « Reply #6 on Sept 8, 2006, 9:36am »
Hi Charlotte and all,
My view of the Pyramid Texts is that they are pre-Dynastic in origin and are the basis for what developed in Dynastic times. In that sense we have to consult them for original definitions and the introduction to the gods.
The wedjat eye, for instance, (as opposed to the Eye of Horus which is quite different) isn't in the Pyramid Texts - so it cannot be related to Horus and Seth, hence we have to look elsewhere for it's origin.
If you would read this study of mine on the origin of Jupiter and the Eye of Horus - it will answer your earlier quest {I would very much appreciate if you could quote one of the "Ancients" saying so.}
Re: Was Earth formed by accretion within Jupiter? « Reply #7 on Sept 8, 2006, 10:49am »
Dear JIMBOW, and ALL others : an interesting thesis, no question ! but this theory implies the existence of an optical tool like a telescope, similar to a so called Refractor-type telescope, to enable a person tp perform an astronomical observation of the Juoiter (Jove) with the capabiliy to recognize enough details, including the BIG RED EYE and its characteristics, even over a longer time. HENCE the logical QUESTION is: did we find something like an old egyptian telescope ?? or at least a strong evidence ( reliefs, wall-paintings, papyri,.., ) for it ?? ---- difficult question, i know ! no museum did expose something like an egyptian telescope (refractor like ? ). but some indirect evidence for such a optical equipment may exist: the french Louvre houses some quartz-objects of great interest in this context: quartz-made-lenses (from Dynasty V) with a surprising optical preciision. colored lenses of similar quality we find as wonderful eye-inlays of the fantastic Old Kingdom (IV/V. dynasty) statues of prince Rahotep and his wife ! wonderful blue eyes, which seem to follow a visitors look ! but the Louvre lenses were analyzed only some years ago, under the topic of their optical qualities. and yes: they could have been used for optical purposes ! for anatomy but as well for astronomy ? --- the study was published by J. ENOCH around 2002. --- furthermore Robert Temple, the author of famous book, 'The Sirius Mystery' is also fascinated by the findings of old egyptian lenses. including those from the Old Kingsom i mentioned above ! last not least of very interest are the new interpretations of the star-map in the early NK tomb of SENENMUT , published by OVE von SPAETH. look here at : http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp ---- enough stuff ! -- now have a nice weekend ! hope to meet You again on next monday ! -- REGARDS: BERNIE
Re: Was Earth formed by accretion within Jupiter? « Reply #8 on Sept 9, 2006, 9:06am »
Hello Bernie and all,
jb} I found Ove von Spaeth's Eenmuts's Star Map page very interesting. I can't read the map myself, but in reading the text we encounter words like {Mediterranean, Maya, Pleiades, Orion, the planets, etc.,) all in association, and I know that to be correct. It's also interesting that Spaeth suggested that the map indicated a "specific point in time;" on that I agree because it's something the Ancients would do.
Why in this living world, on the other hand, Spaeth would include a series of responses on the subject from the-hall-of-maat - I cannot imagine. I also loved the choice comment by Owen Gingerich:
Quote:
.. the findings are very ingenious and admirable, and quite surprising considering the apparent lack of interest of the Egyptians in this sort of astronomy
Maybe it's not surprising than to see that Gingerich is a Research Professor of (Astronomy and the History of Science), at the Harvard-Smithsonian Institution.
Thanks for the article - and maybe I'll apply for the job of Research Professor of Astronomy and the History of Science, at the Harvard-Smithsonian Institution.
But if I get the job, don't look for phrases like the apparent lack of interest of the Egyptians - in any of my work!
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